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Being Your Own Banker with Joey Mure and Russ Morgan from Wealth Without Wall Street

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Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneurs don’t just take the conventional path–from investing strategies to financial tools and beyond, we think for ourselves and use creative solutions. In this episode, Jeff interviews two guys who embody and epitomize this spirit: Joey Mure and Russ Morgan, the founders of Wealth Without Wall Street. With their podcast, online community and educational programs, Wealth Without Wall Street provides financial insight and tools to break free of the mindset and bondage of Wall Street. Listen in to learn what it means to “be your own banker,” find out about Infinite Banking and how you can use it in real estate investing, and get a fresh perspective on reaching your financial goals without conventional Wall Street thinking.

Episode Transcript

Joey Mure 

The what the infinite banking concept really allows you to do is to have your capital doing multiple jobs at one time. And so thinking about it like this, I can either use cash from a checking or savings account to accommodate this function of having to have capital for to run this real estate business. And as soon as I take that money, and trade it for the repairs on this house, or the down payment, or whatever it may be, that cash no longer has the opportunity to grow. It’s simply gone. You know, think about it like a stair step, like I put money into a bank account, and then all sudden, I need it for that repair, boom, it goes to zero and that cash has to be deployed outside of the bank. In the in the in a cash value life insurance policy. Why we use that as a vehicle is because the cash actually doesn’t ever get taken out of your policy. It just acts as collateral, in which I can borrow against to go and accommodate that need for capital. But my cash continues to grow in a compounding fashion for the rest of my life.

Jeff Stephens 

Welcome to Racking Up Rentals, a show about how regular people those of us without huge war chest of capital or insider connections can build lasting wealth acquiring a portfolio of buy and hold real estate. But we don’t just go mainstream looking at what’s on the market and asking banks for loans nor are we posting We Buy Houses signs are just looking for “motivated sellers” to make lowball offers to. You see, we are people-oriented dealmakers, we sit down directly with sellers to work out win-win deals without agents or any other obstacles, and buy properties nobody else even knows are for sale. I’m Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur. If you’re the kind of real estate investor who wants long term wealth, not get rich quick gimmicks or pictures of yourself holding fat checks on social media, this show is for you. Join me and quietly become the wealthiest person on your block. Now let’s go rack up a rental portfolio.

Jeff Stephens 

Hey, thank you for joining me for another episode of Racking Up Rentals. Show Notes for this episode, including a complete transcription of the awesome interview you’re about to hear are going to be at thoughtfulre.com/e57 for Episode 57. Hey, please do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button in the podcast app. It really helps other people find us and we’ll make sure of course that you do not miss the next episode as well. So onward with today’s episode.

Jeff Stephens 

And in today’s episode, I’m really pleased to bring you a really cool, fun and informative interview with Russ Morgan and Joey Mure from Wealth Without Wall Street. Now these two guys in Wealth Without Wall Street, they have a podcast; they’ve got an online community; they’ve got all sorts of educational programs. And they are, as their name suggests, advocates of building your financial independence without going down the traditional route of stocks and bonds and retirement plans and all the kind of Wall Street sort of stuff. So they’re fans of real estate, and they’re fans of different financial tools, one of which is a financial tool, referred to as infinite banking. Yes, infinite banking, it’s an intriguing name in and of itself. And in this episode, you’re gonna learn not just about Joey and about Russ and how they got their business started and what their focus is, you’re going to learn about their community they have got, they’re going to learn about a special offer that they’ve made just for us. And you’re going to learn about infinite banking and what a cool tool it can be and how it can apply in your real estate entrepreneurship business. So without further ado, here’s my interview with Russ and Joey from Wealth Without Wall Street. Alright guys, welcome to racking up rentals. I appreciate you being here.

Joey Mure 

We’re glad to be here, man. Thanks for having us.

Russ Morgan 

Yeah, Jeff, thanks for having us on. It’s really cool that we got to kind of meet virtually through a different event a couple weeks back and that we were able to connect and make this happen.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, me too. I’m grateful that you’re interested in chatting and sharing your message with our audience. So can you just kind of give us a quick intro who are the two of you individually? And who are the two of you together?

Joey Mure 

Well, I’ll start off some name out. My name is Joey Mure and, on our show, I’m called the Italian Stallion. Just because I was grateful enough to be brought into this world from Sicilian descent and came over on the boat. I didn’t personally come over on the boat. But my family did. And Russ and I actually met back in 2008-2009. We were going to church together. And in I was in the mortgage business at the time. And he simply came to me one day and he’s like, hey, I want to start sending you referrals. Well, I mean, if you’re in any sort of commission based sells you say, Yes sir, I’ll show up for lunch. Then he said, Hey, by the way, you need to read this book if I’m ever going to send you any referrals, and it’s going to be $20. And I’m like, dude, that’s kind of low budget, like usually someone wants to sit, give you a book, they give it to you. They don’t charge you $20. I mean…

Russ Morgan 

Well, but I, in fairness, Jeff, I didn’t know if he would actually read it. So I didn’t want to be out any money if he did.

Joey Mure 

Yeah, he’s hedging, he’s hedging his bets there on me. But that book actually changed my life, and dramatically changed the way I think, which is more important than that, about money and finance. It was actually the thing I had been looking for, from my own personal family. Fast forward four years later, after implementing a lot of things from that book, and what Russ had to tell me, and share with me and coach me on. And I was so overwhelmed with really being compelled that many more people need to know the same stuff. They need to know that there’s an alternative to the way they’ve been taught about finances. And there’s just not enough people out there doing this. And so I came home from this conference, I was all fired up. My wife is at home with she’s pregnant with our fourth daughter at the time, I now have five daughters, but at that time, four, on one on our fourth on the way, and you know, I’m going through, I’m like rehearsing this in my brain, like, Okay, I’m about to tell her, I’m going to give up this 300,000 plus career $300,000 a year career leading mortgage loan officers all over Birmingham. And we’re going to start a business from scratch with Russ. I’m just thinking, What is she going to be doing here? Like, is she gonna be like, Get out of my house, your moron? Like, what? What are you talking about? Like, why would we ever do something so stupid? And so I kind of get up the courage, I go to her. I say, Jess, I feel like, I’m supposed to do this. I’m supposed to start this business with us. And you know what she said? She said, you absolutely should do that. And I was like, blown away, and immediately knew that it was meant to be. And that was 2014. Fast forward to today. Now we have a thriving National Business, and are able to share this message on a much, much bigger stage than ever thought possible.

Russ Morgan 

In that great like, basically said, Jeff, and I’m gonna zero changes I get by making them invest in themselves by putting $20 you know, up, is that cheapskate if I would have given it to him, he probably wouldn’t have read that book. And by the way, the book is called becoming your own banker. I don’t know if that’s a question that you have.

Joey Mure 

I always forget that detail.

Russ Morgan 

Yeah. But it’s, it was something actually, you know, so my story I was, I’m married now have four kids. And I was a typical Certified Financial Planner, helping people separate themselves from their money, and I was making a good living doing it. And the market crashed in a way. And I’m one of those that really like to be in control, like most people, but you know, if we’re gonna go on a car ride, I’m gonna be doing driving, right? And if we’re gonna pick off, I’m going to be the one you know, behind the wheel. And when the market crashed, and I was sitting there controlling everyone’s money, supposedly, I was really a money babysitter, but I thought I was controlling the money. I realized, man, this is not for me. Like, I didn’t like the feeling of having to tell people, hey, you only lost 30% feel good, because everybody else was 50. And I just happened to be at this conference. And I think a theme here we met at a conference, Joey went to this event and had a change of life at a conference. But I was at this event, and I met this man, at the time was in his late 70s, he wrote this book called becoming your own banker. And the whole concept was, you need to invest in yourself and you put your cash in your own hands, don’t give it away the financial Golden Rule, right? Those who have the gold, make the rules. And once you once you do that invest in things that you understand and that you can influence the outcome of, and through that you can actually build true wealth. And it just made so much more sense to me because I was like, that seems simple. And it was a lot of things in there was contrary to my, you know, my professional like training, but it made sense. And so I started sharing that message. As Joey said, it ultimately made me like disavow everything that I’ve learned and like, helped us create a business and company called Wealth Without Wall Street. It’s something that it definitely flies in the face of conventional wisdom, if you will. But for most of the people like yourself, and I’m sure maybe the person listening to is now that when you’re seeking true financial wealth, it comes in the form of cash flow, and it comes in the form of things that are based upon things that we can influence and we can find properties, right, we can help negotiate the deals on those properties. We can help navigate who’s going to be inside of our rental properties. And we have the ability to determine how long we’re gonna let them be there. And from that standpoint, we stay in control. And I love that. And so that’s what’s allowed us from, you know, back when Joey and I started, started this business spec in 2005, we left this typical financial planning company, and I was at to do this. And as Joey said, we started a podcast Wealth Without Wall Street, and then started working, working virtually and with people since him.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, that is awesome. Well, you know, when, when we met, or when I was watching you on screen, I should say, when you were you were presenting, right? The two things that really attracted me to use first I thought, I, this is gonna sound really new age-y, but I thought, like, you guys had a vibe that I felt kind of was aligned with kind of what we have here, you know, in this community that I’ve got and thoughtful vibe, and just a little chill and laid back and intentional, but like, just approachable. And I really like that. So I wanted to spend more time with you. But then the other thing was just simply this idea that you can do things in an alternative way. And I, you know, I don’t guess I don’t use this turn of phrase, real estate without banks. But that is effectively what we’re talking about, or acquisitions without realtors, that that is what we’re talking about to so I really felt this kind of affinity with you guys for saying, hey, let’s just step back. And let’s maybe question some assumptions about what we have to do, and what paths might be available to us to accomplish the things we’re trying to accomplish?

Joey Mure 

Well, I like what you’re saying, because birds of a feather kind of flock together, we’re uncommon people, ultimately, at our core, if you’re an entrepreneur, especially if you’re in a real estate entrepreneur, you already know that there’s something not quite the same as everybody else around you. So you have to find your people, you have to find your tribe. And so I’m excited to be able to share back and forth with one another, this community that is you’ve built on a great show.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah. Thank you. So you know, I’ve, I was not aware of you until I met you sort of a few weeks ago. But then since then, I’ve been able to listen to some podcast episodes and check out your community and just start to understand, you know, your platform a little bit. So can you tell us? What is kind of like your framework for helping people achieve financial independence? I think I’ve seen you’ve got kind of a four-step process. Can you walk us through that overall?

Russ Morgan 

Yeah, totally. So we look at how to create freedom with a really simple formula. And unless you’re driving, write this down, and you may already know this formula, but some people don’t, they don’t really, they don’t know that they, they actually can determine how close they are to this freedom points. And on the left side of your page, write passive income. So all the rentals that you have or e-commerce business that you have, whatever it is, any income coming in, that you’re not actually going to work for, put that on the left side. And then on the right side, take your monthly expenses, whatever your average monthly expenses are. And if you don’t know what those are, that’s a problem. You need to fix that, get those numbers. And you can divide the left number into the right number and as a percentage, it will tell you how close you are to financial freedom. And that’s obviously something that we’ve all learned through Robert Kiyosaki Rich Dad, Poor Dad concept, passive income greater than monthly expenses equals freedom, it doesn’t equal $5 million, or $10 million, or whatever the number is, sometimes we’re taught by the commercials. And so what Joey and I have done inside of our community, it’s teach a four step process to how do we not only get to that point, but then how do we cherish the life that we’ve built? And so our first step is clarity. And we teach a masterclass on this. And we’re helping people like understand like this process, and we were actually going through we spending several hours and weeks on just understanding what is it that we want? Why do we want it? And then how does that measure up to what we’re doing today? And I think there’s a lot of things in our lives that we, we get really excited about, we go run after, but we don’t spend a whole lot of time planning it out. And and that’s a problem, right? I mean, it’s just getting in the car driving without knowing where you’re going. And so our first step is clarity. And we use that measuring stick I shared with you a second ago, we call it a financial scorecard, where we have people put what is their passive income, have them go through all their monthly expenses and put it in there, and then it spits it out, and it shows it to them. And so they, they see where they are, and they can measure against it on a on a daily or monthly basis. And from there, we talk about like, Well, how do we impact those two numbers, right, so the left number is the passive income. That’s the thing we’re usually most excited about. But be honest, that’s the thing that probably we need to hold off. Initially. We need to figure out the right side of the page, we need to figure out where our dollars currently going to. Not that Joey and I ever wants to help people reduce their lifestyle. It’s actually quite the contrary. We teach a lot of strategies. Like for one Lake houses versus wolf like cave, we talk a lot about, like enjoying the life with our families. Now, when they’re little, they’re not gonna be little again. So yeah, you can take your kid to Disney when they’re 45. But it won’t be quite the same experience with them riding on your shoulders, you may actually be in reverse on that. So we love though, looking at where our dollars are going and talking about maybe some ways that we might have been taught up to that point, that may not be the best ways to help us reduce expenses, reduce taxes, reduce debts. And so we do a lot of training in that. And our step two is called control. And so controlling where our dollars are going and, and once those dollars are put in, in our control, we know where they’re going, and we have excess dollars, right, but to have money left over then the month, we teach how to actually implement that, that becoming your own banker book that I was referring to. And Joey mentioned earlier on, it changed his life. And that point, once we got kind of the right side of the page, and our cash and an opportunity fund that we can take action, that leads us to step three and four.

Joey Mure 

Yeah, and so I’ll pick up there, step three is creating a course. Right? And the course really applies to which passive income course are you going to go down? And we start with one, what’s your current makeup? So we have ever heard of the disc assessment? Yeah, you know, most people have taken one at some point or another. And what we’ve done and we worked with the guys at disk to create an investor DNA we call where it really highlights your own, like using your disc profile, to highlight which sort of investment path may align most with you. And so once you know that, then you can start saying, okay, maybe I’m interested in this land flipping business, that I can start as a side hustle, grow it into a place to replace my income, and then eventually make it a passive business that is now created more freedom with my time, or maybe it is long term rentals, as you’re talking about on your show. Maybe it’s due multifamily or residential, you start to figure out which of those courses aligns with one who you are. And two goes back to that clarity piece. Which means do I want a business that I can work full time in, that aligns more with who I am? Or do I want literally, it to be running on autopilot, and I maybe have to check in on it a couple hours a day or a couple hours a week, those things are all going to once you’re clear on that now you know what course to go down. And as Russ mentioned, our fourth step is cherish the life that you’ve created. And part of that is just slowing down breathing and realizing what you’ve done in the amount of time that we were setting out to do it. And maybe it takes you three years, maybe it takes you eight years to get there. But you can look back and say, Wow, look what we’ve done. Now you can also start looking at some different tax strategies that maybe will help optimize that income. Maybe it’s now looking at Legacy plans that you can say how can I make sure that my assets and the knowledge I’ve created or taking in his past to the next generation the most efficiently? All those things are part of that last step? And will you know truly help people get to financial freedom?

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, that’s such a great, a great framework, you know, that I’m just struck by how much intentionality is, is in there. You know, it’s sort of like somebody saying, I’m not just gonna like, jump in the river of life and let the current take me where it’s gonna take me, I’m actually going to steer this, how I want to, I’m going to enjoy the journey as well. So I think that that I really love that. And then it’s very specifically the investor DNA thing is, is so, so cool, I think because one of the things I feel like even when I look at my own story, but then as I look at other people who are, who may be kind of like flailing around, trying to find, the thing that clicks for them is authenticity and fit between what you’re trying to do and who you really are. And I think that like when I just think about my own story, I was, you know, reading, learning, and I’m like, I’m gonna go play this stuff, because this is what is supposed to work. Little did I know, though, that it was really grating against me and kind of who I am naturally or my, my personality, my strengths, my you know, whatever my ethics, my standards, whatever it is. And it wasn’t until I finally got things into an alignment between what I was doing and who I really am that I ever made any meaningful progress and I so I just love that idea of the investor DNA as being such an important part of that.

Joey Mure 

One, I think that what Russ mentioned earlier, is a lot of people want to jump to what’s my passive income strategy because they get really excited about the idea of financial freedom, right, which is awesome. I mean, we want people to be excited, it’s gonna move us and compel us to take action. But sometimes we take the first step towards what the passive income idea is. And we take little thought process about who we are and what we actually want our outcome to be. And so a lot of times, like you said, we do get into something that goes against who we are, or to create a business that we really don’t want to be in. But we didn’t think about, you know, what it would be like, essentially bringing the future to the present. And we’re like, wait a minute, that’s not what I want. So you’re building towards something that you never would have signed up for? Had you known what the future look like. And so I think that’s why that first step of clarity is ridiculously important. And very few people ever stop and go through it. Yeah. What would you add to that risk?

Russ Morgan 

No, I agree. I think the clearer you are on things, the less stress you have. And as we talk about money, stress is a huge problem that most people have in their life and is mostly related to money, right? I mean, we’re talking about potential lockdowns, current lockdowns that are happening in our economy, again from COVID. And that creates stress and the biggest stress is the unknown, right. And so the more clarity we can add to our lives, the more we can reduce stress. And that has to happen from us starting with that beginning plan in mind, what is it that we really want, and then measuring our time against that? Because a lot of times, and we talked about this, I think when we were at the event that you heard us speak at is a lot of times, we seek financial freedom for the purpose of more time. Yet, how many people do you know actually are tracking their time? Very few. I mean, there’s lots of books, there’s hundreds of books, thousands of books written on time management, it’s the one thing that nobody wants to do, but everybody wants. Yeah, and it’s the one thing that we can’t spend money to get more off. So we don’t track the one thing that we really want. And we talked a lot about that in our clarity piece that we need to be tracking our time we need to understand is, are we getting closer to what we want? Is, are the activities that we do are doing? Are they more focused? are the things that we’re living out? Are they more congruent with what we want? Or are they wasted activities? Are they maybe dissonant in relationship to what our ultimate day would look like? If we were writing it out. And so we challenge our, our students to go through and look at their life and their time, so that they can actually get back and get more of what they really have said was important to them.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah. Oh, that what you just described there as it is just an intrinsic part of the definition of being thoughtful. So I that resonates so strongly with me, I know well, for everybody listening to. So one of the main ideas, you know, that’s Central, obviously, just to the genesis of your business. And then obviously, now to the tool set of stuff you’re teaching is, is infinite banking. And I know there’s a lot of people listening, going, alright, what in the world is infinite banking? So can you give us an idea of what does that mean?

Russ Morgan 

Yeah, I will. I’ll tell you a little bit of story on this. So I mentioned just that. My background was a certified financial planner. And my job was to help people manage money. And so my father-in-law, my wife’s dad, his father passed away, his dad was a bank president, a little town in Kansas, and the bank that he was president for many years was bought by Bank of America right before he retired. And when he died, he passed along a seven figure, amount of inheritance to my father-in-law, and it was all in the form of bank of America stock. And so my father in law comes to me and it’s 2006-ish. And he says, okay, Russ, this is the money, like, they didn’t have a lot of money. And now they have a lot of money, right? in relationship to where they’ve been. And he’s like, you know, my father told me never to sell this, like, it pays a great dividend. Just I just want to protect and I was like, Okay, well, you know, my training tells me that we should take this stock, we should put a stop loss on it, which means that if it falls below a certain percentage, then it should sell and that protects it. Okay, so that’s a good thing is I don’t want to sell it. I was like, well, let’s put it at 15%. Like, it’s never fallen that like, you know, in the history of the tower look like at 15% that had never happened. It had been pretty steady at $50 a share for the last couple years. Like it’s not a big issue. It’s not gonna fall that long. And I it probably wasn’t nine months later, that stop loss got triggered. The stock started falling, by the way it fell and as soon as it’s sold 100% of over 2000 shares of stock. I get a phone call. What have you done, you’ve sold the one thing that my dad said never to sell. And I was kind of the black sheep of the family there for a few days. But as we didn’t know, at the time we were the financial institutions were at the front edge of that, you know, great recession that was happening. And that stock ultimately fell in bottom somewhere around five or $6 a share. So to give you a little context it went from, it would have been a seven figure situation down to about 20,000, then we would have had had we not sold it. So I obviously was like from that point forward. But just like everybody, he was scared. He didn’t know what to do with his money. And so what did we do, we just left it sitting in cash. And the markets are kind of going crazy. Well, my wife decides she finishes dental school in 2006, she goes to work with another dentist for a little bit, decides to open up a dental practice right at the end of 2008. Great time start business, right? We were financial geniuses. Well, what did she do? She goes and you know, gets a business loan from Bank of America, one of the leading dental lenders in the country. And in January 2009, I’m reading this book, becoming your own banker after I’m leaving that conference. And he’s talking about how people deposit money in banks, my father-in-law, right? You know, a million dollars plus sitting in a checking account. And then there’s people that go to those same banks and borrow money from them and pay them interest now whose money do they borrow the bar the depositors’ money, not the bank’s money, the bar depositors’ money in the bank makes a good living doing it. And I and I was just sitting there looking at the two scenarios, my father-in-law with a million dollars plus sitting in a checking account earning nothing, my wife with a $700,000 loan from the same bank, Bank of America paying almost 8%. And I thought, Man, I’m not smart. You know, I went to a state school here in Alabama, Auburn University, and but I can even put those two things together. So if I apply the principles of what this book is talking about, why should my father in law, take the money out of this checking account, lend it to my wife’s business and have her business pay him back to $8,000 a month for the next 15 years? made sense to me and I went share that idea with him shared the book. And for about 10 years, that’s what they did. They, he basically put the money in a dividend paying life insurance policy. That was one of the tools that was used in the book, because that was where the banks kept their money. Joey worked at Wells Fargo. So when I was convincing him of this idea why it was a good idea. I said, Look, the bank you work at has over $18 billion in cash value life insurance. You know, they obviously know a lot about money, and they’re doing this and he goes, Oh, really, I didn’t know that. That was shocking. And I was like, you know, by the way Bank of America, the stock that my following sold, I said they’ve actually got $20 billion in cash value life insurance, so probably a good place for your money as well. So we started doing that we put the money there, we lent it to my wife’s business. And she started paying me back $8,000 a month, and then, and then we just started looking for other avenues, other things that we could do. So we bought some other different real estate investments, we bought some land together, there were some other businesses that we’ve done together, where he lent from those insurance policies, the cash value that’s in there, I don’t know if people know much about it, but you could borrow against insurance companies, cash values, and, and we would go and invest in something. And obviously, not all of them were profitable, most of them work. And we take those profits, and we would repay the insurance company and just build our wealth. And so we, we were using this really simple concept called infinite banking. And I love the way that those two things worked. And it’s just been a huge blessing in our own personal families. And, and so we’ve just continued to share it from there.

Joey Mure 

And the only other thing I would add to that, Jeff is, when we’re thinking about, like your strategy of long-term rentals, in some cases, you probably don’t need a whole lot of capital, if you’re taking over an owner, financing node or whatever it may be. But a lot of times you do have to have some working capital in the form of a down payment, or you know, what repairs or whatever it may be. And the what the infinite banking concept really allows you to do is have your capital doing multiple jobs at one time. And so thinking about it like this, I can either use cash from a checking or savings account to to accommodate this function of having to have capital for to run this real estate business. And as soon as I take that money, and trade it for the repairs on this house, or the down payment or whatever it may be, that cash no longer has the opportunity to grow. It’s simply gone. You know, think about it like a stair step. Like I put money into a bank account, and then all of a sudden, I need it for that repair, boom, it goes to zero and that cash has to be deployed outside of the bank. In the in the in a cash value life insurance policy. Why we use it As a vehicle is because the cash actually doesn’t ever get taken out of your policy, it just acts as collateral in which I can borrow against to go and accommodate that need for capital. But my cash continues to grow in a compounding fashion for the rest of my life. So now I not only have the real estate asset, I also have my cash growing in an uninterrupted manner. And so it’s just taking your cash and giving it multiple jobs instead of trading it for that that one real estate asset. So I don’t know if that helps. But that’s another way to think about, you know, what Russell’s story was of his family and how they using it. And then how a real estate investor can accomplish the same thing?

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, yeah, thank you for explaining that. And that illustration of, you know, your wife, borrowing the money from within the family is very, very helpful, too. And I, you know, so when I first came across the infinite banking concept, I like to think I’m a pretty sharp guy, but I had to really process I had to read that book at least twice. And really step back, I asked a million questions to really understand it, but it was what you just hit on in there. At the end, Joey was that idea that the money could be doing two or three, four things kind of at the same time, creating insurance, generating a return being something you could borrow against without depleting, you know, the return, I was actually the person who explained it to me, he said, Well, imagine you have $100,000 in an account, and it’s earning, you know, 3% interest, and then you borrow 60,000 of it out, now, you only have 40,000, earning that 3% interest. And he said, in this case, you could borrow against and clap, you know, use that as collateral, but you’re still earning the interest effectively on $100,000. And that, that concept finally kind of cemented it. For me, but it is, it does take a little bit of time, I think and energy to wrap, you know, one’s head around that, especially because it it kind of seems like an insurance concept to begin with. And then after a while, you’re you realize, it’s not really an insurance concept. It’s, there’s a tool in there, that’s an insurance policy, but it’s really, but it’s really not. And I can say that when I make my deposits, for my annual premiums, and then I’m borrowing a large part of that back on a pretty continuous basis. And I’m using it like a revolving line of credit, man, it’s extremely, extremely useful to me as a real estate entrepreneur.

Russ Morgan 

Well, and what you just said there, too, I think one of the things you mentioned earlier on is that your show is helping people, you know, find and buy real estate without realtors, right? buy real estate without banks. And one of the reasons why we like to do that is the ease of transactions. And I think that’s one of the things that most of the real estate investors that we deal with come back to us and say, oh, wow, so you mean when I borrow, borrow money from these insurance companies, I don’t have to fill out hundreds of pages of paperwork. There’s literally like one or two signatures that that says how much I want and where I want to direct it to. And then the next thing we hear from our real estate investors is, you mean I don’t have a required payment every month, you know, because there’s situations where some people are flipping houses and, and they’re doing that renovation, and obviously they’re trying to turn it around as fast as possible. But the carrying cost of that money and the and the and the need to have to make monthly payments on it gets expensive. And that becomes a burden that becomes a part of that stress that we were talking about earlier. And as you know, just these insurance companies don’t have the required monthly payment due. And that freedom as we call infinite banking and real estate investing peanut butter and jelly. Oh, they seem to go so well together. I mean, really any food analogy works for Joey he likes to eat but it is it is definitely a win. And those are the things that we see is yes, there’s a lot of little working parts in there. As you said, we only feel like this is a tool on our bigger step. This is just a place where we store cash, we ultimately got to get that cash to work. And if it doesn’t work well for us, it won’t matter where we put it initially. But if it’s just adding an improving the efficiency of everything we do over a lifetime; it can be a real significant game changer.

Joey Mure 

Yeah, I’ve never Jeff, I’ve never had somebody say, Man, Joey, there’s just no way you could improve my checking account. Like I love my checking account. I mean, I would go to I would go to blows over this thing. No, they everybody knows if you have a bunch of cash sitting in the bank, you just know you’re going backwards, right inflation. It’s not a good place to store cash, but it’s really been the only option that we’ve ever known about. And so all this is an alternative that gives us more of the characteristics that we would want if we knew it existed.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I’ll tell you, if I, if I never fill out another bank loan application, it’ll be too soon, you know. And so I love that about things like seller financing, which we talk about a lot on the show. And yeah, my experience too, it’s yet to a phone call to quick signatures. And three days later, you know that a CH in my bank account, have these loan proceeds there. They don’t have the ability to say no, they don’t have the inclination to say no, it just doesn’t show up on a credit report. And I will say one thing that was funny about that idea of there’s no payments or do is maybe three years ago or so I was applying for a bank loan. And you know, as they do, they’re scrutinizing the heck out of everything. And I’m looking at a bank statement, they see a deposit for I don’t know, $20,000 or something. They’re like, what is that deposit? I said, Oh, that was, you know, a loan against my life, my life insurance. They’re like, well, what are the payments on that? Because we have to factor that into your debt-to-income ratio. I was like, there’s no, there’s no payments on that. Like, what do you mean, there’s no payments? I mean, I mean, I don’t have to make payments on it. I don’t, it was just totally over their head. And, but I love those things, when you can just do something that’s not, it’s not really terribly complicated. It’s just not super mainstream. And that kind of blows the mind and everybody else around you. And I feel that way. A lot about seller financing in general, but a great a great, great tool.

Joey Mure 

Yeah, that’s a good point that you’re making is that a lot of people hear this concept. They’re like, wait a minute, that’s, that’s, that’s, you know, off the beaten path. I’m not sure if I can trust it kind of this type of thing. But it’s exactly what you said, when you’re playing in a real estate entrepreneurial mindset you are, you have to be thinking outside of the box, right? The best deals come to those who can solve the problem in a way that nobody else can think of. Right. And so I love the idea that you call this thoughtful real estate, because it is you’re literally applying some of the concepts and ideas that are totally uncommon, but create amazing optimization of a business where or cash flow or fill in the blank.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, absolutely. So could you take a minute before we wrap up to tell everybody kind of about your community? And if I recall correctly, there is some infinite banking education within that, that they might be might be interested in learning about?

Russ Morgan 

Yes. So our x if it’s all right, we’ll give away a free link to it. So that way, your team, and people who are listening can be a part of it. So you go to weltweit, Wall Street, comm forge slash tree, right. So that’s for thought for real estate entrepreneurs, right. And there’ll be a link there, you can join the community. And it’s about 3500 people across the country that are members in it. And what we love about this community is not only have we taken the time, like you said, Jeff, to create courses on deeper subjects, like the infinite banking concept. So if you go to courses, once you join, you can see obviously, 101, that’s infinite banking concept. And you can get five-to-seven-minute videos that will break this down in a way that you should be able to understand, obviously, I apologize in advance for the rednecks teaching the course. But we try our best to draw enough pictures in there to help compensate for our lack of communication skills. But also, inside of this community, we’ve built it for group collaboration for there to be a thoughtful process for when people are there, that they can ask questions of other people on the same journey. And that’s so important because we, we can’t, we can go on journeys solo. But we get so much further when we go together. And we believe that people who have a light mind, like minded objective, can ask other people on that and be inspired and encouraged. Because not always are the people we’re hanging out with, but necessarily daily, are on that same journey. And so we’ve built this community with that in mind, you can go to social media anywhere, and you can get cat memes and political humor and everything else. But we decided we will leave all of that for Facebook and Instagram and parlor, whatever. We’ll keep this focused on the journey of attaining our time back and becoming financially free. And so as you’re in there, not only can you get tactics and get access to some of the experts that we interview on our podcast, but also you can message anyone are in there to help kind of give direction and answer questions as well.

Jeff Stephens 

Yeah, that is great. Well, thank you so much. Can you Would you mind giving us the link just one more time?

Joey Mure 

Yeah, it’s a www.wealthwithoutwallstreet.com/tree, t-r-e-e for thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs.

Jeff Stephens 

That is so cool. Thank you for setting that up. We really, really appreciate that. And then people should check out your podcast also called wealth without Wall Street, right? That’s right. Okay. Okay. Wonderful. Well, guys, thanks. Thank you so much for taking the time to, to be on the show and share your story and your perspective and these awesome financial tools you’re using. And thank you so much for the offer. Let us join in your community.

Russ Morgan 

Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having us on the show. Alright, take care.

Jeff Stephens 

Well, there you have it. I hope you enjoyed that interview, a couple really nice, fun guys to be around. And really a wealth no pun intended, well, maybe a little bit of a pun intended wealth of information about financial independence and different and cool ways to get there. And I hope that you are intrigued by this idea of infinite banking as well. I also hope you are heading over to wealth without wall street.com slash tree right away as well, because you do not want to miss that generous offer that they shared with us.

Jeff Stephens 

Well, that is it for today’s episode of Racking Up Rentals. So again, show notes, including a full transcript of this interview, are going to be at www.thoughtfure.com/e57. Please do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button and your podcast app. And if you would take just a second and rate and review the show. You know, it doesn’t have to be a Shakespearean level review. But if you just put a few words in there about what you find with the show what you get out of it, we would so be grateful for that.

Jeff Stephens 

Hey, did you also know that we’ve got a Facebook group for thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs as well? We do. It is called Rental Portfolio Wealth Builders. We’d love to have you join us there. So just type in the words group.thoughtfulre.com and we will redirect you right there. If you liked the episode, please take a screenshot of it and post that to Instagram. If you could tag us on Instagram we are @thoughtfulrealestate all nice and spelled out. That would be fantastic too. Well, I will see you in the next episode. Until then, this is Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur. I appreciate you very much and I’m signing off.

Jeff Stephens 

Thanks for listening to Racking Up Rentals where we build long term wealth by being a win-win deal makers. Remember solve the person to unlock the deal and solve the financing to unlock the profits.

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