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To celebrate this milestone 100th episode, Jeff interviews his personal coach and mentor, Greg Pinneo. Greg is a 45-year full-time veteran of real estate investing. He is a national speaker and acclaimed educator of real estate entrepreneurs, and is known for his truly unique and inimitable mix of fresh perspectives on real estate finance, negotiation, philosophy and life. As Greg is known to say, his specialty is “wonderfully disturbing” the people who have the opportunity to listen to his message. In this incredible interview, Jeff and Greg discuss everything from real estate finance, to left-brain and right-brain balance in real estate acquisition, the value of adversity and so much more.
Episode Transcript
“The idea to separate things that that a piece of real estate sticks, bricks, everybody assumes, okay, what are you buying? The first question was always, what would you pay for that? What a silly question, what would I pay? I think I can think of three properties in my entire history that I’ve written a check for, which means that hundreds of them have a finance package of some kind. Now, let’s talk about all finance packages are not the same. How much did you actually put out of your pocket down? What is the balance on a note? What is the interest rate? The term the approval? The deferral? What is, you know, there’s a million nuances to that finance package. And, and, and this is the infrastructure of what makes that deal work? Well, it’s just like looking at a building, we say, Does it have good bones? Well, I look at the finance package and say, Does it have good bones? Yeah, right. Yeah, this, you know, and so it starts with the ability to separate the two into two separate categories. But I buy real estate all the time that I don’t want the real estate at all. I just want the debt that’s going to stay with me for a long time. I want the capital from the resale of what I just bought to buy more real estate. Yeah, essentially, I’m looking at the acquisition is alone.”
Welcome to Racking Up Rentals, a show about how regular people, those of us without huge war chest of capital or insider connections, can build lasting wealth acquiring a portfolio of buy and hold real estate. But we don’t just go mainstream looking at what’s on the market and asking banks for loans, nor are we posting We Buy Houses signs are just looking for “motivated sellers” to make lowball offers to. You see, we are people-oriented deal makers, we sit down directly with sellers to work out win-win deals without agents or any other obstacles, and buy properties nobody else even knows are for sale. I’m Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur. If you’re the kind of real estate investor who wants long term wealth, not get rich quick gimmicks or pictures of yourself holding fat checks on social media, this show is for you. Join me and quietly become the wealthiest person on your block. Now let’s go rack up a rental portfolio.
Hey, thank you for joining me for another episode of Racking Up Rentals. And this is not just another episode, this is our 100th episode. And I am so, so excited for that and so excited for today’s interview that I know you are going to love. So that means Show Notes for this episode can be found at thoughtfulre.com/e100. Please do us a big favor by hitting that subscribe button in your podcast app. It really helps fellow thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs to find us; onward with today’s episode.
And in today’s episode, I am so excited to share with you an amazing interview that I was fortunate enough to conduct with my mentor, Greg Pinneo. I’ve been working with Greg very, very closely since about 2015. And when a person says, you know everything I know I learned from X, Y and Z. Sometimes that sounds like hyperbole. And I would say in this case, it is so, so true. And my amazing experience being a student of Greg’s is exactly why I now coach and help other people because I understand exactly how unbelievably impactful that role can be for the person on the receiving end of it. And so in this interview, we’re going to talk about a lot of stuff. You know, I think I’ve used the word wide ranging to describe other interviews. This is truly wide ranging, we talk about everything from, you know, finance, sophisticated finance ideas to philosophy to how adversity can be the best thing that ever happens to you and so much in between. So I personally have had the pleasure of editing this interview, I get to listen to it again. This is absolutely a treasure. I hope you love it just as much as I do. Without further ado, let’s get right into my interview with Greg Pinneo.
Jeff Stephens
Okay, Greg, thanks so much for spending some time with me today.
Greg Pinneo
I appreciate being here, buddy. We’ve spent a lot of time but never in this form. So here we go, a new adventure.
Jeff Stephens
Exactly. I was thinking, you know, we’ve done I interviewed you once for capital club a few several years ago, and you’ve interviewed me in that case. But one thing I feel like is very different is now in the last couple years now that I’ve had an opportunity to be meeting with more new and aspiring and growing entrepreneurs. I feel like I have a whole new perspective. And maybe it’s a level of empathy for what that experience is like and seeing that it was different than my own experience. And so I feel like I bring different questions to the table than I could have possibly even thought to ask you, you know, a few years ago so I’ve been looking forward to that. So I wanted to start with something that I think is, this might have been the very first thing I wrote in my notebook when I went to Power Players the first time. And I want to say it was maybe just an hour or so into the first day. And I wrote down that you said, the entrepreneur doesn’t just see what’s there, they see what could be there. And man, I have thought about that so, so much in the last several years, can you can you explain a little bit about what that means? And when you say that,
Greg Pinneo
You know that there’s the very literal translation of that, I think in real estate. But that really isn’t what I meant, you know, the literal translation is this is a little crappy single family house on a 20 unit, high density multifamily zone site and the ability to see past the literal of what’s there now to what could be. That’s the literal interpretation, but what I meant, always has a bigger meaning than just the literal expandability vision. I believe that, that entrepreneurship, a big part of entrepreneurship is vision. This, this idea of imagining the curiosity of what could be is the essential quality of the entrepreneur. We’re rarely content, right? We were rarely say, Oh, this is just great. And we’re always visioning a different and better and more amazing picture. And, and I think that the great ones, not only do that with their craft, their vehicle, but they do that with the people that they’re closest to. They can feel and visualize someone clicking at their highest potential is someone that they see pictures of, of what could be in their mind. And I think it applies to not just the craft, not just the entrepreneurship, but every phase of of, of who they are they see what could be, they arrive before they depart in their mind. And it’s way more than just, you know, as I phrase it, a picture on a refrigerator or some dream space. No, it’s not that it’s literally feeling and seeing and living and breathing what is, but it isn’t yet. It’s a little delusional. I wonder if I’m dreaming or if I’m just being an entrepreneur at times. And, and it’s easier to describe in the world of property and zoning and the things and changes we can make, but it applies to so much more of that, you know, visualizing yourself as a kinder, more aware self. And feeling that is the start to becoming that. Hey, geez, we’re right out of the chute. Real surface level stuff.
Jeff Stephens
Exactly, yeah, how’s the weather in your town? Ha ha, no. So, you know, a spin off thought I’ve had about that, that again, I think actually really could be taken very literally with real estate, but also could be taking more as a metaphor for life too is that thought of an entrepreneur sees what could be there. It led me down this path where I’ve spent a lot of time thinking and now actually talking to about the difference between being an investor and being an entrepreneur and right and the common lingo in our in our space is to say, I’m a real estate investor. But I felt like there was a difference between those things. I’ve been started trying to put words to that over the last couple of years. And I guess one thing that I feel like I’ve kind of come down to a definition I’d love to bounce this off you is, I feel like investors gather resources and then they look for a vehicle into which to place those resources and entrepreneurs create opportunity, and then they assemble the resources to place into that opportunity. And so what that comes down to me is like, the investor is confident in their resources, the entrepreneur is confident in their resourcefulness? And I don’t know if any of that is ever what you intended what by talking about, you know what entrepreneurs see, but how does that resonate with you? Or how does it connect with how you?
Greg Pinneo
Completely agree with that, you know, it’s a, it’s an inside the box given. Here’s the stats, here’s the formula. Here’s the objectives, here’s the ROI. Here’s the yield objectives. Here’s, that’s the investor mentality, right? Where we’ve got, we’ve got an objective, does what we see plugged in to equal that objective. So do the givens that I’m looking at add up to meeting that objective, versus the entrepreneurial side is the vision of creating the objective, and then working backwards as to how things have to line up to create that vision and add the investment piece, at least in the world of real estate, add the investment piece because we all keep score, by does this work? But I think it’s just one starts with the end and an undiscovered possibility. The other is dealing with tangibles and numbers and performers that are right in front of them. And I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with that. But to me, that’s, that’s statistical accounting. Yeah, it’s pretty dry. It’s pretty boring. It doesn’t it lacks the vision piece. The creation of something that isn’t there. And, and, to me, that is what’s kept my interest full time in this sport for 46 years, is creating what wasn’t there before I showed up. Yeah. And that’s the, it’s always different. And, you know, you can do a lot of number crunching on the backside of the vision, but the vision is the exciting part of it coming out.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, absolutely. One thing you pointed out to me about myself a few years ago, and by the way, just for everybody listening for context, you know, with the exception of taking kind of a breather for just a few months, you know, Greg and I, he’s been my coach for the last pretty much six straight years, right. And I remember there have been times when you pointed out to me that where I get, what I get up for is the vision part. And as soon as the vision is over, and now we’re just executing, I can start to check out a little bit if it’s going to be five months of construction, like that’s not the most engaging part to me, anyway.
Greg Pinneo
Right. Right. And, and, and this is where a team of those that can follow through with execution can follow through with management can follow through with all of the details. You and I both know, I Ryan is close, I think 20 years with me at this point, and what would I do? What would this family do without Ryan, I have no idea. Because every day, I write out two or three pages in the morning, this is aside from his normal day in and day out things that he needs to attend to, but I write out two or three pages, take a picture of it, and text it to him, usually by five in the morning of a million details that I’ve started a process. And now I need this, this, this, this, this, this, this assist. And then once I hit send, I now can forget about it, it returns to me with the information I need, with the task done that I needed done with the contact with the appointment with that whatever all those execution, airy items are not interesting to me, and they’re not my best skill set, nor are they yours. And this is I think the true definition of an entrepreneur, if you’re content, you know, making your own airline flights and in reservations and getting your new driver’s license and, you know, whatever else. I would question that you’re more an investor analyst. Yeah, the entrepreneur steers more to the right brain. And, and, and, but has a huge appreciation for the execution airy left brain side of things.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, that’s for sure. You know, when I talk to somebody who’s definitely come more in the investor mentality, maybe I’ll say, you know, I’ve got I’ve got this new deal tied up. It’s $150,000 down and then they might say something like, well, it must be nice to have $150,000 you know, in your checking account ready to go and I sort of look at them and I realize oh, wait we’re not speaking the same language here, because you’re assuming I have that money just sitting aside and ready to go. I would say eight times out of 10, and you can vouch for this as my coach, eight times out of 10, I have no idea when I say yes where exactly all those resources are coming from. But that’s okay. Because that’s about the resourcefulness that becomes the next challenges. But we started by teeing up a deal that actually makes sense, I feel good about now we’ll go assemble the resources.
Greg Pinneo
Right? Yeah, step one, right. But I also think that this this, this plays into the definition of entrepreneur, Jeff is that you use that word confidence or resourcefulness. The entrepreneur has a strong belief in their ability to overcome obstacles that should logically overcome them. It’s, it’s, it’s a bit delusional. If you really want to analyze it, that we, we say, Oh, I can do that. to things that some people, if they don’t see it right in front of them in some account, or in some readily accessible means that it just becomes an impossibility. And so the belief, what’s the belief behind it, the belief is in your own resourcefulness, your own ability to navigate those waters to communicate the opportunity to go put this in front of somebody? And of course, with enthusiasm and passion and the right, the right kind of project? Of course, the answer is going to be yes. To find what you don’t have. That really comes back to a confidence in, in the belief in what you’re doing. And in your own ability.
Once you’ve discovered that, you have to lean on it. Yeah, right. It’s, I mean, if, if you or I had every puzzle piece lined up, before we put something under contract, I can’t even imagine, right. I don’t know that I could put anything under contract. Yeah. I don’t even think in those terms. That, you know, I have a belief system that that, that if this deal that I’m writing up, has the right stuff, that everything else I need will come running, because I’ve created an opportunity for it to be involved, be at people be at contractors be at money be at whatever I need. They’re gonna love this. And if I did my job, right, which is create a great possibility. So yeah, wait, yeah, there’s it’s almost endless as you go down these rabbit holes of, but this is where you and I both have gone down them. And it really comes back to that one word, what, what do you believe? I really believe, because our actions and our inactions. They come from that completely. If you’re frozen, there’s a belief system problem. And, and so that’s why there’s a premium put on that new you’re extremely introspective, you look at things, you study him, you, you take yourself to task. I don’t know that a lot of people do that. But when you do, you can come out with a belief system that allows you to do your thing, you know?
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, that’s so true. When I think about my experience pursuing full time real estate investing, I would say at that point, and then my experience, once I met and connected with you after that, a lot of people have asked me Well, what exactly was it that about connecting with your coach that really made the difference? And I guess I’ve come to think about this as the process of finding one’s voice as a real estate entrepreneur. And I think probably everybody has a slightly different voice that they need to find, but you get the opportunity to see, like so many people who are on this journey, and where they’re kind of stumbling around in the dark, which is how I would describe what I was doing before. To when I found you and started to understand your perspective. It all just kind of clicked and it was like, Yeah, I just find it finding a voice that not only the stuff that I was doing work, but it actually felt authentic and genuine to me. So I was I guess I’m wondering, is there some way we can talk about somebody who feels like they haven’t quite found their voice yet. That you know, they’re doing the stuff that the books say to do or they’re doing the stuff that the podcast said to do, but maybe it doesn’t feel right to them. It’s not certainly not working and they’re still looking for that right thing. Like, you know, I think you and I’ve probably talked before about the radio dial, like if it’s supposed to be at 100.3, but you’re at 100.4. Like, oh, that fuzz is like you’re so close, but you’re not quite there; that fuzz kind of kills you. How does somebody find that voice?
Greg Pinneo
It’s a tremendous question. And it is, you know, if I have a role, you use the word coach, I, I don’t know what that the word is, in my own mind. I joining someone in this journey is how I always looked at this. And, and so first step with, let’s say, we’re, we’re together now. Okay, we’re in this together. First step is always empty out your pack, what do we have to work with? Right? And that, that emptying out your pack? part is a really important first step to seeing what is real in your life? What is what is true, what will you really go to back with? That that mantra that we started with? That I start with, with everybody is question everything. It’s, it’s what is the twain quote, it’s not what you think, you know, it’s why you think you know, for sure, that just ain’t so that’s gonna get you, right, that kind of sentiment. And so I go all the way back and go, tell me tell me about you. And I can hear in someone’s voice when they say, Well, listen, I go, okay, convinced me of that. I’m not convinced. Well, that’s what I’ve always said, that is what I asked, I don’t care that you’ve always done it. Is that you? Is that authentic? Is that sincere? Is it passion driven? And we were like, I don’t even know.
And this to me is, although it sounds so surreal, and so far away. The reality is anything you study about the formation of our belief systems, it’s virtually done. By the time we’re five, there’s about 10%, left to go until we’re 20. And that’s it. Okay, but the lion’s share the heavy lifting, we didn’t even know what was happening. And we’re making assumptions that the people in charge are qualified and on task. Well, of course, they’re not always and they may be well meaning but you don’t even need a license to have a kid. You know what I mean? There’s no test. And all of a sudden, my parents were 20 years old, at least admittedly, they knew nothing. They had no fathers, they had alcoholic mothers. And now they’re in charge of, of intricately wiring a hard drive that you will live with the rest of your life. Now. If you don’t question that as an adult. You’re an idiot, as far as I’m concerned. But it takes a lot of work to pull it apart. Yeah. And I think that this is where it has to start. Because the metaphor I use oftentimes, Jeff, is that you know, here you become an adult and you get excited about something and you see somebody really like and you’re drawn like anyone else you oh my God, I want to win the Indy 500 you know, I want to win that race. I’m so excited about it. But what was installed in your head was a Volkswagen bug. You could have your helmet on, you could have your gear, you could know the track and there you are on the line and they say go and you hope you don’t get run over. You don’t have the vehicle in terms of your belief to do what you want to do. And I know this sounds very like how do you even grab a hold of this it’s tough.
But you know the story of the young kid – I’ll do it in less than a minute – I’m going to make a bunch of money, man when I make a bunch of money I’m gonna buy a Porsche and I went through the drive thru I think I got enough money and they do have Can you give me my balance? No, yeah, they gave it to me. I went that’s enough money to buy a Porsche. And I went right down to university Porsche Audi and I walked in and there it was in the showroom floor and I’m walking around it and and all of a sudden started feeling this the only way I’ve never had one except maybe then this anxiety. I’m looking over my shoulder like I’m doing something dirty or something like, like, I like I’m wrong for even being here and I didn’t get it and got it over took me right. And I bolted from the showroom floor and drove two blocks in my truck and I yelled at myself, What is going on? This should be a great day, you’ve worked hard for this, you’ve always wanted a Porsche. Here it is. And I couldn’t figure it out. And I yelled, I’m leaving here to you figure out what’s going on. And it’s hard work to think about what you’re thinking about, you know, you’re thinking about what you’re thinking, I got this, like pi squared or something, you know, really difficult stuff.
But I dug in there. And when it came down to was that I knew at some point, my dad would see that I had this car. Okay, well, what’s wrong with that? My dad would look at me, and, and be highly critical. Because he would ask, do you need this? Everything we ever had was you don’t get it, and you shouldn’t have it, unless you need it. And I mean, need it. You don’t get new tennis shoes. So there’s holes in the bottom of these things. And then if duct tape will work, you keep going with that for a while. And it was this hard wiring that you should have what you need, if you work hard for it. And I sat there and I said, Greg, you’re an adult now. Do you believe that? Do you believe that? And I went No, I don’t believe that. I believe I should have anything that I want. If I’m willing to work honestly and hard for it. And that was such a departure from the way the messaging now I don’t blame my parents for that messaging, because that was a big upgrade from their life. Even feeling like you should have what you need was an upgrade. Yeah, they did their best.
Anyway, that newly installed belief system, I literally wrote it out, taped it to my dashboard. And for a couple months, I just tried to reinforce this is my belief. Yeah, I didn’t know what I was doing. I was 19 years old. And so this business of, of either ratifying your belief system, remodeling your belief system, or completely ripping it out and redoing it, it’s tough work. But it’s the precursor to anything you may want to vision to do. You have to believe in order to even open the door to possibility. Yeah, so that’s always step one, with people, because when we get that clear, and really have a have our belief system squared, then it’s just a matter then of identifying what we want creeping attention after it. And let’s go do it. Right, let’s go do it. And you learn the toolbox. And, and here we go. But without that, we’re just stuck.
Jeff Stephens
One of the things when I when I think about the belief systems, I feel like is very closely related is, is his self-image. And if we could take self-image in multiple directions to we could talk about it with ourselves, we could certainly talk about it with our sellers, right? What is our sellers image of themselves? And how do we, you know, utilize that as part of the recipe of what we’re trying to do. But in thinking about ourselves? I think I would have literally said, when I started working with you, like I’m a one to four unit kind of guy. And it took you pretty directly saying that well, but yeah, but why is that the case? And why? Why is that the sandbox you’ve defined for yourself, and I would have never even really questioned that I just sort of, I guess my overall self-image was I do these things are not big, massive, super complicated, but I do things most people wouldn’t do but not you know, going above and beyond too far. But to be able to have somebody else hold that mirror up to you and say, Well, this is why you’re telling me you see yourself but we have no idea why, is a challenging exercise to go through but really it’s hard to do by yourself I guess I mean that the deinstallation of those beliefs by yourself is a tricky process.
Greg Pinneo
To me, that is that is the value of have another set of qualified eyes and ears. That that is sort of worked through some of those things, to be able to even hear sort of a ceiling recognize, well, maybe there was a day I had that ceiling myself and kind of smile and go Okay, well why is that because That’s where your own journey can say, Hey, listen, if you can buy a house and remodel it, you can buy a 40 unit and remodel it. It’s the same exact process and really believe it and sometimes somebody else’s belief in you. That is that starts a process where you, you begin the questioning of again, well, what do I believe and see it always comes back to you though, to either ratify, remodel or replace. And, and that, that constant process. So like we do this once, we’re constantly doing this, as we should, beliefs should upgrade, they should upgrade and they automatically do with great results. But they should be in a process of upgrading constantly. That’s the objective.
You know, as results redefined belief, our life should be upward and outward, constantly moving upward and outward. Which is the opposite of how Thoreau describes most men leading lives of quiet desperation. They’re stuck. And so you’ve been willing, very willing to, to absorb the question and take it to task? I think that people hear that the question oftentimes, but it takes real resolve to take it to task. It’s hard work. I, we work hard at so many things. And we equate hard work with some kind of physicality or, or progress. Look how hard I’ve worked. We’ve done all this stuff. See, it was this now exists? That’s hard work. How do you measure hard work that goes on in your mind? But it is the most essential task at hand? Because it’s the most powerful tool we have. Yeah, it’s the resource of all resources. And, and, and so time, daily to work on one’s mind on one’s beliefs. Wow, very few people do that. And I think having someone push you is got to be of help. I really believe it. You know, I had a whole lot. Every time I would meet with a baby. It was just this mind collision. Because he would go Okay, well, what about this, and I got, you know, and it would be a new, inconceivable thought. But that’s what got me thinking. And I was willing, like you are.
Jeff Stephens
So that’s such a great segue to something I mentioned, when we started that, I guess I now understand things or see things that I wouldn’t have known a couple years ago until I started kind of working with people a little bit more. And one of the things that has really confounded me is, you know, real estate is such a, gosh, there’s a lot to learn, right? And, and people get excited about learning about real estate. And I have really discovered that there’s a massive swath of people who have this, this attitude that says, everything you need to be successful in real estate investing is available for free or for $20. Through a podcast or a book, you are an idiot, if you are paying somebody for coaching because everything you need is right there. If you’re, you know, not so lazy as to just not, you know, go get it. And what, that it totally blows my mind. And I’m trying hard to sort of have this empathetic perspective and say, Oh, well, okay, I guess I can see how you would feel that way. But it really, really confounds me because, sure, maybe you can figure out how to calculate NOI from a book but that that uninstallation, or identification of a limiting belief, the uninstallation of that, the replacement or remodeling with a different belief, and then actually how that ties into maybe this, you know, $2 million deal you’ve never done before how those things connect. You can’t get that out of a book. And I’m really I’m struggling to sort of bridge the gap with people to understand and I’m guessing you’ve probably, you know, beat your head against that wall 1000 times in the last few years.
Greg Pinneo
I bet again, even that is, like you say that you inherit and take on these belief systems. And you’re right, it’s out there. It’s like, why would I need to attend a seminar? I’ll just Google it. You know, well, does Google care about your life? Do they truly whatever resource you’re typing into for free is somebody going to be invested in us specifically, to weed out your belief system to move you towards doing what you do? Best? finding those to fill the gaps, you know, your own personalized strategy. I’m not saying there isn’t a lot to learn, and available and what a resource for walking around with a suzano Library times 1000 in our in our pocket every day, it’s incredible. But it’s apples and oranges. And I’ll tell you something I honestly Jeff can, without any question. And this, this ties to the different thing. And I know you’re kind of going here, I’m gonna have to take it here. But I couldn’t imagine talking about real estate. And I’ve talked to 1000s of groups. Without not just mentioning the talking about Tom Newman, Abe Label and Dr. Michael Shadow. It was the triangular trifecta that I had, that without them, we wouldn’t be talking right now. They were the ones that introduced the philosophy, the finance, the strategy, the negotiation, the tools and mindset needed to move forward. Without them, we wouldn’t be talking, I don’t even know what the hell I’d be doing.
And so qualified voices qualified, you know, I interviewed 32 flight instructors, before I decided who was going to sit in that right seat with me, because they’re going to sit in that right seat for over 300 hours, getting me through a multi engine instrument, commercial rating 300 hours in the plane. I thought, wow, I need to, I need to believe in them in every way. They’ve got to, they’ve got to communicate well with who I am. I mean, I really wanted to find the right person was the best thing I ever did. But like in flight instruction, you’re not going to go get those ratings without somebody sitting in that right seat. They won’t let you he just don’t study it online and go get in a plane. It doesn’t work that way. So I believe in in the model of a very sincere qualified coach mentor, they’re guiding you. I don’t think anybody’s ever heard Jim Rohn speak about life where he doesn’t immediately go into, you know, Mr. shelf right out of the gate, that it changed his view and perspective on everything. I listened to an interview this morning at 5:30 in the morning and Arnold Palmer interview when he was still alive. And he goes right back to his dad. And the things that he learned from his dad, my dad always said, My dad always said, you know, he was blessed to have a great dad, that that like a father knew more than he did at the time. I also think when you find somebody that throws their heart into the equation, they’re not just giving you their time. They’re not just billing out their hours, they’re giving you their heart and life. And they’re it’s a whole different world. If you can find one of those, you got someone I know you give that to your students. I really, you know, I tried to wring myself out from my students. The greatest risk I take in being a coach and mentor is what I call the tight pants syndrome. When you work with someone and they start getting this level of success, and you never know, you never know what that’s going to do. The roots of how that plays itself out are always unknown intel. Here you go. You’ve got a nice home, you’ve got some money, you’ve got some notoriety you’ve you’re known in your community. You never know.
I would wish that every student I’ve ever worked with is a Jeff Stephens. You know: your success, your portfolio view you’ve remained humble, gracious, introspective, helpful. Thank you. The opposite is the tight pants syndrome, where people start thinking they are all that and a bag of chips. And they get arrogant and full of themselves and unappreciative. And that is that’s a failure on my part. I just did. it rips me to shreds, and I’ve seen that four or five times, and I do everything I can to weed out that pass. ability of who I work with because it’s heart wrenching. It’s like watching your own kid become an idiot. It just rip you to shreds. But it’s the risk any coach takes I think. So I don’t know how that tied in. But the great ones who are the great ones? They’re humble. And they’re confident. Those the General foments humble. Very confident. Yeah. Not not arrogant, not cocky. humble and confident.
Jeff Stephens
When I think about Tom, Abe, and Dr. Michael Shadow, you know, I’ve, I’ve had the pleasure of meeting one of those three, and unfortunately, was not able to meet the other two, but I know that between the three of them, they, they really armed you, so to speak, with a great balance of left brain and right brain skills. And I guess I feel like as I’m, I’m trying to, you know, continue to spread the gospel of what I’ve learned from you and what has worked for me, it’s, it really kind of comes down to those two things like, seeing that every situation is both left brain and right brain in nature. But that doesn’t I don’t think necessarily come naturally to everybody, or nor does it come willingly. You know, I think there’s a lot of people who say, I’d really rather just have the deal analysis, spreadsheet or calculator, tell me what to do here, rather than using both, you know, the analytical and the negotiation people side of things. I can’t even conceive of like the idea of, of just doing business really in that in that one way. But I don’t know, I’m trying to figure out exactly what my question here is. But is it possible that there are people who just really aren’t a great fit for that, and they really should kind of stick to just pay maybe do turnkey rentals and the spreadsheet spits out an answer, and we deposit an earnest money check, and kind of go from there? Or should everybody be striving to be out in the arena, sitting in the living rooms, like the place that you and I like to be?
Greg Pinneo
I’ll give you a lease to take on that? I don’t know that I know the answer. But having worked with so many, I, I’m going to use the metaphor and what a terrible metaphor that no one will understand but as you know, for I was raised on the sport of handball, and, and to be an open class or a pro handball player, your left hand and right hand have to be equally strong, equally as accurate, equally as offensive. In other words, you a pro handball player can go on a pitcher’s mound, and throw 80 mile an hour strikes with both hands. So the motion is fluid, it’s strong. And I’m telling you, it is not natural to anybody. You start with a natural hand. I you know, I’m a natural right hander. And I mean to tell you, for every ball, I hit with my right hand, I’d hit 100 balls, with my left practicing that to be a good handball player to be an excellent handball player, but it’s hard. It is damn hard.
I believe everybody is born with a natural left or right brain you have a propensity, right, you have a you have a passion to oftentimes Oh, I’m very much in love with this, I really struggle with that. And because it’s hard to develop your opposite brain, it’s just like hard developing your opposite arm. Most people tap out, they just find a way within their own brain to work within a niche where that’s enough. And unfortunately, now so that’s what I see normally, unfortunately, if you are naturally right brained in this business. In other words, you have these great awareness skills, these great vision skills, these great people skills, these good communication skills, you’re a natural right brainer. The world of real estate requires the left brain the left brain is the investor the yield the cap rate, the NOI, is the numbers, the finance the details, it requires, there’s no way to get around that. And, and so in our sport, the natural right brain person has to work a lot harder.
There are left brain success stories out there. Who everything I mean, they do deals with over the phone, if it fits a box, right? They don’t even want to meet anybody, it fits this box stepped up, go, Okay, we’ll send the purchase sale agreement to you sign here DocuSign they never meet anybody, they buy it based on stats. And if your stats are conservative, and if you’ve done your research, well, it can work, I’ve seen it work. There’s greater potential. And, and an upside. And the finance terms that need to be explained and massaged, will never happen with that left brain person. Right? Because they require a level of trust, they require a level of, of connection that the left brain person will never have just with that left brain alone. And so the interesting thing, in my mind, is that the greatest left brain terms can only be created by a right brain connection person. Yeah, I mean, we being very practical, try to go negotiate a substitution of security clause and an exchange of no clause without ever meeting somebody. Now we’re going to happen, there needs to be a level of, of trust and understanding and belief in that relationship, that you will conduct these tools with integrity. I’ve never seen it happen just by saying here’s our standard thing, sign it; people look at it and go, what is this? And that’s it, the deal is done.
So I believe that entrepreneurs, true entrepreneurs, for the most part, start with very, very right brains. And then we work our butts off to really understand the left brain infrastructure, which is critical. I mean, people look at me and I do deal structuring and power players and they go oh my god, you’re like a math Brainiac. Oh, no, I’m not. I’m a liberal arts major. And communication in English and poetry for God’s sakes. That’s, that’s who I am about this left brain stuff. I have worked my brains out your standard so that it is a fluent language? And, and that makes me what I think to be a very full entrepreneur and entrepreneur with tools.
Jeff Stephens
So sticking with the left brain, you and I, we could we could probably we both really enjoy about eight hours of just kind of going deep dive into these different Pinneo-isms, but one that I think is so, so I mean, they’re all incredibly important, but hard for a lot of people that I’ve tried to convey this idea to get is, in your words: real estate is just the clothing that finance wears. Would you mind telling us kind of what does that mean? It’s such a fascinating statement.
Greg Pinneo
Yeah, it is. You and I’ve had this discussion many times, and you you’ve got it now, you know, why? Why would I buy a piece of real estate that I don’t want, you know, why would I buy this dirt and structure that I don’t want it at all. And what I want is now I really confused the world, I want the debt, I want the hand crafted finance package, I want the debt package that I’m creating. That’s what I want to keep, I want to get rid of the real estate. And the idea to even spatially separate those two. And why would I want debt and not the real estate, I can hear people getting so confused, I can see in their eyes like, I want that. I want to free the real estate from the negotiated finance.
There are two things in every transaction, I look at sticks and bricks and dirt. And I look at the finance package that may initially come with that. But they don’t need to be married long term. If I can take the dead and move it to something that I love and want forevermore. Now, there is no debt on what I just bought that I don’t want. And I’m going to sell that and be rid of it. But what I’ve got now is from the sale of that I’ve got capital and cash in trade for a finance package that you couldn’t get at any conventional lending institution times 1000, right. And so the idea to sell separate things that that a piece of real estate sticks, bricks, everybody assumes, okay, what are you buying? The first question I always, what would you pay for that? What a silly question. What would I pay? I think I can think of three properties in my entire history that I’ve written a check for. And one of them was $5,000. So that doesn’t even count. Right. But I can think of three that I wrote a check for out of my account to close, which means that hundreds of them have a finance package of some kind.
Now, let’s talk about all finance packages are not the same. How much did you actually put out of your pocket down? What is the balance on a note? What is the interest rate? The term the approval? The deferral? What is, you know, there’s a million nuances to that finance package. And, and, and this is the infrastructure of what makes that deal work. Well, it’s just like looking at a building, we say, Does it have good bones? Well, I look at the finance packages, say, Does it have good bones? And so it starts with the ability to separate the two into two separate categories. But I buy real estate all the time that I don’t want the real estate at all. I just want the debt that’s going to stay with me for a long time. I want the capital from the resale of what I just bought to buy more real estate. Yeah, essentially, I’m looking at the acquisition is a loan, a long term loan. And spatially getting that square in your mind sometimes takes a real aha moment with people. You grabbed it quickly and understood it and all of a sudden, I remember you teaching in Las Vegas. And what was fun for me was, because we talk in terms of gameboard and movable pieces, it’s yesterday’s news, we get it. But watching you teach hundreds of people in a room, and they’re like, what’s going on? How is he you know, and you explained it perfectly. But it still is just, it’s a mind bend, when you’ve never thought in those terms before you have to change your belief system.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, I’ve been, I’ve been really working hard, but struggling for the last many months to just find ways to explain this in a way that people will understand, you know, and my most recent iteration on this, as I’m thinking about, I’m trying to use some kind of a baking analogy here. But you know, everybody wants a plate of cookies that comprise this beautiful portfolio. So they go out, they buy a cookie, and then they go buy another cookie, and they buy another cookie. But I think what I’m doing is I’m buying a cup of flour, and I’m buying a cup of sugar. And then we’re getting some eggs, right, and then maybe we get more flour, and then a couple more eggs. And pretty soon, like we’re really more focused on the ingredients. And sometimes I see that loan as that’s just the cup of sugar. In this case, it’s not the cookie in the end result, but it is a massive ingredient to what we’re really trying to create. So it’s almost like it begs the question, What game are we playing here? Is it the acquisition, just the properties? Or is it the acquisition of the ingredients of the portfolio we want to have?
Greg Pinneo
It’s difficult to remember, but remember the very first time and, you know, I mean, this was a handwritten stumbling exercise, but it was a very, very large note that that was created on this property. And they had all the incentives in the world to not have this paid off. And so of course, you need the substitution security clause, right. I didn’t want to pay it off a long term low interest note, but it was such a large one, substituting the collateral so obviously, that this was what was born and this was the exchange of no cost the ability to take a large note and slice it up into smaller notes. And I drafted my best rendition I ran it through an attorney says yeah, okay, well, this is never seen this before. But this sounds as good as I think we’re gonna make it you know, see if you can get it signed, and I presented it and I got it signed, okay, well, the day I, I sold that property. And now I was going to use the substitution of security and the slice and dice clause I went into escrow.
Now this is the first time a very seasoned escrow agent had ever seen the slice and dice clause on a $1.1 million note, and I had it divided up in very odd increments, all to fit leverageable equity and in various gaps in the portfolio, right? So an $86,000 note here, $172,000 here and all these very odd numbers. But of course, all added up to $1,100,000, the same payment, the same interest, the same term, everything. And, and here’s somebody that’s done this for 30 years. But they had never seen this. And it I must have tried to explain this 100 times. And it just, and then finally, I don’t even remember what little metaphor I used. But it was just like you could see on their face like a light bulb. And it’s like, I just got it. I said, I’m almost like, well, what did I finally say that helped you get it because I was really struggling. We’re not paying this off. We’re simply slicing it into small notes and moving them here and there and everywhere. And here’s where we’re moving. I’m in. And I got it. I just I got it. Sorry, took me a while, you know, and this is a seasoned veteran, which the reason I’m saying this is sometimes the most difficult people I work with our people who are brokers, real estate brokers, they’ve been in the industry a long time.
And all of a sudden, we introduce finances, I know it. And it’s just getting past their own experience and belief system is literally like going through a concrete wall. They just can’t get their head around it. Whereas if you take a high school kid that doesn’t know how to spell real estate, in two hours, you could teach it like falling off a log. And doesn’t that say how our hardwiring just controls what we do next? Whatever we do, whatever we don’t do, comes from our belief system. And I’ve seen it over and over again. I even take on a new client, I go home, oh, my God, this is going to be tough. 15 years is a check the box broker? Oh, boy, we’ve got some retraining to do.
Jeff Stephens
Yeah, so true. Sometimes people call me and they say, all right, I sent out a batch of letters, and I got a call back. But the seller who called me back is a broker. And, you know, what do I do, I’m never gonna be able to negotiate something good with them. Because they’re, they’ve been in this business for a long time. And they’re pros. And I say, Wait, step back. And remember that they’re experts in playing their game, but you’re not actually playing their game. So don’t give them more credit than is necessarily do that they’re gonna understand your game, but you need to enter this relationship, knowing that they’re gonna have a frame that’s, you know, 15 years set and concrete of like, here’s how it works. But don’t expect that they’re necessarily going to understand what your internal game plan is. So I don’t know if that’s making sense. But like, don’t assume that your opponent just because they’ve been in “real estate” is going to understand what you’re doing. Because there’s it’s just a different game.
Greg Pinneo
It is a different game. I just am amazed. I smile a lot going, Oh, okay. Well, I know what I’m up against here. I can see I can feel it. So okay, you get used to how you navigate around that how you’ve been talking about it. Right? And, and sometimes that’s an introduction to a seller to say, you know, I have to imagine that in your mind, you have a route planned out. From here to here, you see it going this way. Because it’s the only route, you know, you type it in your phone, oh, here’s the highway to get from here to here. We see the blue line. That’s it. I’m going to get you to here. I’m going to get you here with more money, less time, more taxes, less tax exposure, but it’s a different route than you’ve ever looked at. Are you willing to have that conversation? And that’s where it starts. But it sets the stage upfront that we’re going to explore a different route that I think is a better route for you. And it’s a route to that I can get my head around. Yeah and off you go. So you learn to handle those, that preexisting mindset proactively upfront sometimes. Yeah, it sets the stage that we’re going to, we’re going to get to the same place. We’re just going to go a different way.
Jeff Stephens
Quick question. I don’t know what your time constraints are. I’d love to keep chatting if you are
able.
Greg Pinneo
I’m great, Jeff. And I say that for you and I really mean it’s no, I, I truly I appreciate. I appreciate what you’re doing. It’s a bit like, it’s like being near or around, or at least the thought of being your grandchildren. Right? Because I, it’s always a highlight for me that someone that I’ve had this kind of role with and grown into great respect and friendship with, to have you taking it out there now, although I may never meet who you talk to, you know, I’ll feel as though I’m somehow related because it means a lot to me that you’re teaching as you should. So, yeah, yeah. No, I’m good. You tell me what I can do.
Jeff Stephens
Well, I thought one thing that would be kind of fun to talk about that maybe on the surface seems sort of like the opposite of left brain finance package, I’m buying this property just for the loan I’ve negotiated. And I would say it’s not necessarily opposite, but to some they might think so that’s a topic of romance. And so I want to just preface this idea by saying that I feel like, you know, you kind of go out into the world of real estate investing, and people are like, numbers, numbers, you know, it’s this, and it’s that and, and I’ve really come to have an appreciation for romance and quality from you, and what the little portfolio I had when I started working with you is not full of romance. But now I placed such a high value on that to the point where, like, you know, the deal that I’m acquiring right now, I’m almost hesitant to tell my sort of community about it afterwards, because I don’t think most of them are really gonna understand. Because it’s like on the surface of just straight numbers. Is there cashflow? No, there’s not really cash flow. Okay, are you getting it at a good price? Yeah, pretty good price. But like, it’s not really for all those reasons. It’s more for some of the intangibles of what that type of property represents in that location, its long term perspective. It’s very difficult to articulate. So can we talk a little bit about the importance of romance, and property?
Greg Pinneo
Well, two very quick comments about this bird. We’ve already talked about it, this bird doesn’t get talked about until it’s closed and done. Second of all, I would disagree with you that once you announce to the world, this latest bird, there will be a huge understanding and appreciation for it, regardless of what the numbers look like. And which really is the segue into my point. There’s shelter, there’s food, there’s water, and there’s romance. Every one of those things is absolutely essential to life. Essentially essential to life.
You can have your shelter, you can have your food, you can have your water and be the most miserable sorry, human being on the planet. But you throw romance into the equation and you have a kick in your step you have a reason to get up, you have a spark in your eye, you have something that that you’re interested in romance is, is an integral part to life. And everybody on some scale in some way understands its value. Unfortunately, in the world of left brain numbers, no values placed on them. And I can show how short sighted that is in the world of real estate. You take two buildings thrown exactly the same size lot the exact same zoning in exactly the same street one is right next to each other. And the exact same net operating income so that NOI is absolutely the same, why is the 1926 turn of the century gorgeous brick building way more valuable than this piece of shit two story 1958 walk up? Why romance; one is more beautiful. Oh well. So then we should go to our calculator and we hit the we hit the beauty button right? No, no there’s no such beauty button.
And therefore this idea of cap rate, not taking into account romance one sells at a three cap the other sells at a five cap why they’ve got the same one beautiful that’s why romantic drawing, which really is another way for saying rare. Yes rare and what’s rare, as always been valuable. And, and so to me when you set a building in a great piece of architecture in an unbelievable location with views, okay? All those things have nothing to do with left brain numbers. It’s beautiful architecture, it’s beautiful setting, it’s got a beautiful view, then it’s a block to the best wine bar, coffee, bistro and, and you know, the dog park? Well, all of those things are very subjective things and yet to say they don’t have value, it’s just ridiculous. absolutely ridiculous. You’ll see, as you work more and more with people, you start with a portfolio of what they have. I’m telling you, I, it’s a rare thing to not see a portfolio where I look at when I actually physically do a day on the street with somebody and, and I’m looking at every property they have, I can’t tell you how many times I go, Why the hell did you buy this? Who had a gun to your head and said, buy or I’m gonna pull the trigger. This is just dogshit in the world of any kind of life or romance at all. It’s utilitarian shelter. It might as well be a FEMA trailer for crying out loud. You know?
And so when we really focus on neighborhoods, and, and, and why don’t we everybody knows this. Why does everybody go to the middle of nowhere crap, because well, you can’t get a good deal here. Everything’s so expensive here. Nobody sells here. You see, those are all belief systems. And when I hear those I go, boy, I’m so glad you have that. Because you won’t be any traffic in my way, is I’m only going there. And I don’t look for what’s for sale, everything’s for sale. And I’m going to go and I’m going to root out the things that really have hurt value. Right? I couldn’t imagine, I have never lived in a home since I was 19 years old that I couldn’t see 50 miles because view and outlook. I can look right through that window right now and see Mount Lemmon those kinds of things are why we wake up in the morning. They’re what are essential to us. It’s why our environment and these it’s so it’s not just an analysis of real estate, it’s analysis of your life, how we’ve had this discussion about the clothes, you wear that 19 you know, 68 911 t, Porsche that, that, you know, would cost the same as a Ford Taurus. Why the hell would anybody drive a Ford Taurus, when you could drive a 1968 you know, 911 t, that feels like you, or an old Ford Bronco that feels like you or you know what I mean?
And, and yet, we get thrown into this box of saying, this is how it’s all supposed to be. And it doesn’t fit. It doesn’t inspire. It’s just like great leadership, great leadership, if it was only intellect, and left brain leaders, we may have a lot of leaders, but great leaders also inspire. And now all of a sudden, we got a different thing. See, the word inspires a subjective word like romances. It’s not an shit test. It’s not some practical measure of yield cap rate or numbers. It’s the secret sauce to life, and real estate, and anything worth having. If you don’t have it, you are at a loss. And so because it’s a magnet that draws people, it becomes in real estate, a wild card and I hunt for those wild cards. Because once I got them under contract, once I own them, oh boy. Now I’m in control, because I know everybody in the world wants what I have, right? That is the definition of demand real estate, I can on seven eighths of this country, nobody wants it. Right. But when I’ve got what everybody wants, I’m in the driver’s seat.
Jeff Stephens
Right, which is really the interesting bridge between romance, which just feels so I don’t know, touchy feely and just in your heart, but that’s where it bridges actually financially resilient because that’s the thing people want, right? It’s less elasticity and the demand for that romantic property. And that’s why I just think it’s such a fascinating relationship between those two things like at heart and becomes the brain almost in a weird way.
Greg Pinneo
It absolutely does, Jeff and from a negotiating standpoint, you’re in the best place in the world. I just worked with a student on a 900 square foot house. 900 feet, two bedroom, one bath of super cute 1928 construction. They thought it might be worth $750k in a crazy market. I said, Oh, no, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, we’re gonna play this game differently. And we got, we got $990,000 out of that house. And then because it was one of four of them in within a block that we were going to sell. We started with the cutest one first to establish a comp base. And now what does that make the 1100 foot one right next door, you see what I mean? And so one at a time in this is negotiation. But what was the basis of that leverage? Romance. Well, we’ve got rare, we’ve got romance, we’ve got everything everybody wants to know and your view, if you don’t sign up, believe me. Do you see the line down the street? That’s the place I want to be in with anything I own, be it I’m selling it, being I’m renting it. I want to pick my next, my next person. My next decision among many that want it. You know, when you when you’ve got to take the tenant that rolls up in the low writer blacked out windows, hands out with chains around his neck and pays you in cash. And you think, well, I should take this. I know I shouldn’t. But I got it because it’s been vacant for six months that you know what you have there. When you have to take any tenant that comes along. You did it to yourself because you own a building that the only one that would move in here as a cockroach. You did it? Yeah. I want the opposite. I want buyers that are standing in line tenants that are you know, falling on themselves with applications that look like they just came out of Harvard to get in. That’s what I want. And so to say that that word is irrelevant in real estate is like saying we can live without air.
Jeff Stephens
It’s fascinating. I remember the first time we spent a day on the streets together. I remember driving you buy the stuff I already owned, and the majority of it on the list was like well, we’re selling that, we’re selling that. The last one I showed you is a 70s triplex about a one lot away from a busy road and we drove up and after about half a sec, you said sell it. This looks like my dentist’s office. There’s no romance here.
Greg Pinneo
Yeah, well, you know what I think about with that, Jeff is after 46 years of doing this full time, it’s all I’ve ever done. I am very opinionated, there’s no question about it. And quite honestly, some can’t take it. Some tap out. They got me on this is too brutal. You know, I don’t like excuses. I don’t like understanding or hearing why it didn’t get done or can’t get done. But I never drive anybody harder than I drive myself. And my heart is in the right place. If we’re going to have to make an invasive turn. Okay, let’s do it. Let’s rip the band aid off and start going the right direction. And all I can ask for is willingness.
You know, I think I think of you, of course, I think of Lindy and Brett, I think of people who have allowed me to, to move them in a positive direction. And who once they’ve got there, have remained humble and helpful. Got it? Like I say the painful part is when they’ve gotten there. And then all of a sudden, they’re there, they’re self made. Oh my god. If I ever hear anybody say that I’m gonna bring their neck because none of us are, none of us are. I mean, let’s start with God made us first second of all, he puts people in our lives. And if we’re humble, we grow and if we’re arrogant, I get afraid people when they get arrogant because I know the next step and it’s gonna hurt. It’s gonna be lonely and it’s gonna hurt.
And so I don’t know, I think you will appreciate this. But if you can take somebody that’s willing like me for 46 years and say, Listen, if you just would please press in and listen, you could do what I’ve done in 46 years and 10. And you’re an example. You know, you’re not even 10 years into this yet. But you’re, you’re there. And your wisdom is much, much greater. at an earlier stage in your career. I had to learn ever I was the first guy in the door for all this stuff. I got shot a lot, because I just was trying things nobody would try. They had to be perfected, you know. But now that they are perfected, and there’s a lot of thinking and thought and history behind them, you get to this place, and now it’s just gets exciting. Like we’re now what do you want to do? You’ve already gotten to where I’ve gotten in 46 years. So what does your next 36 years look like? Yeah, that is what’s exciting.
Jeff Stephens
So that segues, I think, really nicely to kind of the last broad category I was hoping we could talk about a little bit, which I guess the overall headline I put on this is the value of adversity. And you, unlike any person I’ve ever met had, has an attitude of we’re not we’re not trying to avoid adversity, we’re not trying to just tolerate it, but that there is actually something to be embraced in adversity and appreciation of the person that helps us to become. You know, I guess I talked to people and I asked, What do you want to do? I want to be full time in real estate. And but pretty soon I start to see though, that brings me to another expression I’ve heard you use many times, which is How high does the hurdle have to be before you’ll kind of back down? And it turns out, I think the hurdle doesn’t have to be that high in a lot of ways. And so I know that you’ve learned to love what others will barely even tolerate. And can you speak a little bit to just, you know, people say, Gosh, well, if I start, I might make a mistake, I might lose some money, I might fail. And it’s like, yeah, you might, but is that necessarily a bad thing? So if there are people who are listening or afraid of that next step, how do you help them reframe in advance what adversity can mean for their development?
Greg Pinneo
This topic is about as personal as it gets to me. Because I don’t think like anyone, I don’t think I started out as a kid going, you know, let’s, let’s bring on adversity for all these reasons. I don’t think anybody does that. I’ve learned value by having to deal with certain things, and things that I brought on things that miscalculations. But what if I were to start with the end in mind, as life went on, I developed a mantra that goes with me everywhere. And, and it’s interesting as you should have track what that means. It all adds up. The mantra is simply that Growth is the Grail. That that is my number one objective that every day, I’m growing, sameness is the enemy. I mean, if you were to look at my plane, it’s written right on the side of my plane. “Growth is the Grail, sameness is the enemy.”
Okay, well, if growth is the holy Grail, how do we grow in the most substantive, real and long lasting way? Answer, adversity; adversity has the ability to create and form character and strength and perspective and philosophy like no time of goodness ever has created. Times of comfort and 72 degrees create apathy, they create weakness, adversity creates a hard look at yourself. It creates the real answers. It creates the real truths whether you like them or not. And it creates a resolve that says, If I can hang in here, I will be better for this and then you become better. And pretty soon you become unafraid of adversity, you actually switch it up and go bring it on. It’s like, I’m alone here. But this is the good stuff. This is where you learn to love what most people won’t tolerate. And that is a quote of my dad’s, you know, that if you can do that, you’ve now created something very rare, very resilient. And this isn’t like with a mean chip on your shoulder, it’s an inner strength where nothing moves you. You’re, you’re solid. And the only way to create that is adversity I’ve I ever resolved that.
I’ve slept in a hand crafted bed in a house that cost me $8.3 million to build. Eight years of effort, unbelievable. ocean front gorgeous home with a handcrafted bed and side tables. And, and that’s me, why am I comfortable there? Because I had to come to terms of who I am in a cot in a prison cell. Are you the same guy, and I know I am. I make my list before I go to bed. I’m up early, I’m on it. The surroundings are in my mind. It doesn’t really matter what I look at, I’m the same person. I think that arriving at a place of strength like that is leaning into adversity. And recognizing that this is an opportunity. This is a tuition, don’t waste it. Never waste pain, Jeff, your pain has got to be amortized. It’s got to be truly absorbed. And if we recognize it that way, if we truly believe that, we now I don’t say we go seeking adversity. But as things heat up in different parts of our life, we call them and embrace it.
And we look for the lessons because there are lessons, there’s ripe, low hanging fruit for just the taking, if we’re willing to look at it, and look at ourselves. Honestly, if the objective is to know thyself, and in that comes your greatest power, there’s no way to know yourself and the world around you short of adversity, there just isn’t. There’s no way, there’s no training or thing you can go through. And so you see people come out of beating cancer, one of our great Power Players right now is right in the middle of a battle with leukemia. But he’s doing all the right things with it, leaning into it, learning about himself. Another great friend, very close friend is battling ALS right now. And he’s doing the right things with it, as he’s leaning in. He’s grasping this rare opportunity to learn about himself and the world around him and his faith with this gift of adversity. Can you really mean that?
Well, Kim Sha really means that, he really means that. And he’s inspiring the world around him, which is the next point: that if you want to have a substantive life that changes the world around you, you had better have a heavy dose of overcoming in your own. Because it’s the only thing everybody can relate to. If I said, Hey, all of you who got a $10 million house stand up, let’s talk, the room would be empty. But if I said, Hey, listen, anybody here that has ever felt overwhelmed, and completely ready to jump? Stand up. Let’s lean in and talk, the whole room would stand up. You see, adversity is the common thread. It’s the human condition. It’s what we all understand in different ways and in different levels. And sometimes it’s only an internal conflict, but conflict is a part of living. And so if we can embrace it, and use it as our greatest teacher, now we become the results of the benefit of that. And I’ll tell you, there’s nothing. There’s nothing greater than knowing that. Listen, I can’t control everything that’s coming down the pike, but I’m okay, I can handle it. I don’t have any worries. Aren’t you all freaked out about this COVID thing? Not at all. Not at all. Something I’m downplaying, its reality and it’s terrible what’s happened and many people have died in it, but am I afraid? No one I know where I came from and I know where I’m going in to If this gets difficult, bring on the lessons. Yeah. Because there’s a chapter there that I haven’t read. So let’s learn it. Let’s go deeper yet, you know?
And so yes, it’s not just been one. I mean, I think I could go down the list of all the things that stress people out, you know, a divorce, bankruptcy, incarceration, I mean, I could keep going, loss of your closest friend, on and on, you know, it’s at Kipling, if you can kind of hold yourself together and grow. When everything around you seems like you’re in chaos. That’s the, you know, that’s the essence of if, if you can grasp what’s really there to learn amidst all of this, that’s going to happen to you, yours is the earth and everything in it. And I believe that.
Jeff Stephens
You know, among the just countless things about real estate, business life myself that I’ve learned from you, the one thing that always jumps out, and it’s something I’m always working on and a million miles from mastering, but the idea that there’s only one person who gets to decide if I’m okay, and that’s me. And that, it’s so easy to feel like I’m okay, if the outside effects are, you know, creating the conditions for me to be okay, but it’s like, No, not that; I actually get to decide if I’m okay. And that’s easier said than done. I can, I can assure.
Greg Pinneo
As I think, on to that, Jeff, with the outside conditions, we live in a world nowadays, it’s tragic, I think, especially for undeveloped minds, and people trying to find who they really are, is that we live in a world of comparison. And it’s, it’s Photoshop comparison. It’s how do I rate with a world that that looks better than mine. And I think the greatest tragedy to your own growth is when you start comparing yourself to any other person around you. Right? That that measure is you against your best self, you against your finest potential. And if we can keep it within those parameters, we grow and grow in a healthy way. The minute we look outward, which the whole world wants us to compare and look outward, the minute we do that, we’re doomed. We’re doomed. There aren’t enough filters to make your life look as beautiful as what’s out there. And so then, this depression sets in and young people, this is suicidal tendencies. This, I got to look happy all the time. But I’m really miserable. This unreal authenticity, that is happening in our world of pretty faces and photoshopped crap. It’s not real.
And anything that’s not real, it’s not sustainable. And if it isn’t sustainable dies. It’s that simple. I love the principle of sort of logical extrapolation, you and I talk about this a lot. Where does this leave me? About many roads, you’ll choose not to go there, guys all told us that when we were four, right? And so I really look at this and say, Who am I? Where am I? What am I capable of? Now in that vein, a qualified voice that cares, truly cares, and has no agenda can say, here’s what I see, noodle that around. Because sometimes that voice of care, a qualified voice can see things in you that you haven’t yet seen in yourself. And that seed planting can cause a motivation to grow towards it.
I mean, and I hope it’s not taking anything out of the context, you can edit it out if it is but you know, you have a gift. And I’ve told you 100 times and your gift of teaching, your gift of communication, it’s an intelligent, humble package. And the vision I have is that the world experiences your gift. I can picture you in a Coliseum teaching, inspiring. Of course it’s your coach, whenever you’re doing something that is an insignificant detail, I try to remind you, your gifts are in front of people inspiring, discussing exchanging anything other than that, Jeff, and that’s not the vision. And hopefully, that consistency of messaging pushes you to consider bigger and more amazing ways of putting yourself out there. I had that voice in my head since I was seven years old, up until, you know, he was 88. When he passed away, I had that voice in my life for 50 years of not only great parents, but I’m speaking of Abe, who always saw more of what I was capable of than I could even see myself. But there was no other agenda except my best. He wasn’t motivated in any other way than just he cared.
And so I am that audience of one, you alone know, the bright spots, the weak spots, you alone, say when you quit, and when you keep going. And I have that quiet voice in my head all the time. I saw a post, a year and a half ago, one of my students, actually a guy that I threw my whole heart into, posts saying things like, Oh, you know, this ship is burning down. Bla bla bla bla bla, you know, my voice says, Oh, that’s interesting that you might think that. But I say when the ship is burning down, I say when enough’s enough. Not you, not anyone else. I say, when I tap out, I’m the only one that says when I tap out. And if you know that I’m 8 billion miles away from tapping out, I hope you enjoy eating these words at some point in the future. That’s the voice in my head. I say when things happen. That’s one of the tight pants that bothers the shit out of me. But it’s the risk you take in putting yourself out there; you give away pearls and some people take them and think they’re all that and a bag of chips. So yeah, just the way it is.
Jeff Stephens
So as I think back on this last hour and a half or so, I think it’s a great example of something that you and I have talked about in private a lot, which is that, when a person learns about real estate, they tend to get pretty excited. And it starts to make them want to ask maybe some bigger questions about how they’re spending their life. And it opens the door, under the sort of guise of, ostensibly we’re having a conversation about real estate, but are we really having a conversation about real estate? And I think that this last hour and a half or so has been very much like that. I mean, we did we talk about real estate, yes. At the same time that we’re talking about, the person you become on the entrepreneurial path is just as important as the portfolio you’re growing. And I hope that people; it’s like good luck finding that in a book, right? That just doesn’t happen without human interaction. So I’m so grateful for not just this, these 90 minutes, of course, but for the last several years of having these conversations together.
Greg Pinneo
I had a similar opportunity yesterday with a great young entrepreneur and got to discuss for about an hour and it went in a similar direction, and he said I think we’re gonna have to schedule another one of these to do pure left brain. I went, well, let’s do it. That’s the easy part. I can do left brain very well. So if that could help, you bet. So maybe we’ll have to do a pure left brain one sometime.
Jeff Stephens
Well, so you’ve got a massive array of ways that you can help people from Capital Clubs, sort of an easy weekly way to stay in touch with you, all the way through the immersive multi day experiences of Power Players. So for those people who want to learn more about how to get involved with you and what you’re doing, what’s the best way to entry point to do that?
Greg Pinneo
Well, to me, because this is the non-scalable human side of things. If ever you want to just give me a call. I’m always happy to talk and so, you know, I’m happy to give you my phone number, it’s there on our website. I do this thing for the exchange of human connection. That’s why I do this, this teaching part of my life, that’s why I do it. And so short of that, I always want to know who I’m teaching, who I’m working with, I don’t care if it’s a Capital Club weekly call or if somebody wants to consider a Day on the Street or Power Players or something like that. So, to me, that’s where it starts. And they could, they could give me a call 206-226-7777. Or, of course, you could go to the website, The Cor Company, Cor Company.
But communicate, exchange; if we don’t have that, in my opinion, we don’t have anything. I don’t want to deal with faceless people who click and go off to believe me. If someone goes online and buys some education, I promise you, you’ll get a call from me within 24 hours, because I want to know who I’m teaching. And so you have to enter your information to buy anything of ours. That means if you didn’t call me before, I’m going to call you. Which again, it’s not scalable. But this is a passion thing for me and has been; I started teaching in my late 20s, I’m 63 now, so I started teaching at Seattle Pacific University, and I still am in touch with those students in those years at the university that I taught, it’s personal. It’s not, it will never not be personal to me. And so, yeah, Greg Pinneo, look me up, you’ll find me and I answer my phone. And there’s only one number. It’s the same number my wife has. So you know, there it is.
Jeff Stephens
Thank you so much for taking so much time to be with me. I know it’s incredibly value for everybody listening, I can’t wait to I get the pleasure of actually going back and editing it so I get a chance to listen to it again easily. So thanks so much for doing this.
Greg Pinneo
You bet, buddy.
Well, I hope you enjoyed that incredible interview. Every time I talk to Greg, I get so much out of it. And we can have entire coaching conversations that are about numbers and sticks and bricks and finance and substituting collateral and all this real technical stuff. And then the next coaching call, we could be talking about life and vision and I get just as much out of it every single time. So I hope you enjoyed that half as much as I did.
And that is it for today’s special 100th episode of Racking Up Rentals. Show Notes for today’s episode can be found at thoughtfulre.com/e100. Please do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button in your podcast app and rating and reviewing the show. Did you know that we have a Facebook group for Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneurs too? It’s called Rental Portfolio Wealth Builders and we would love to have you join us there. Just go to group.thoughtfulre.com and you’ll be redirected right to the page. If you liked this episode, please take a screenshot of that and post it to Instagram and tag us; we are @thoughtfulrealestate. I will see you in the next episode. Here’s to 100 or more additional episodes coming right up. Until then, this is Jeff from the Thoughtful Real Estate Entrepreneur signing off.
Thanks for listening to Racking Up Rentals where we build long term wealth by being win-win dealmakers. Remember: solve the person to unlock the deal and solve the financing to unlock the profits.
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