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Financial Independence Through Real Estate, While Keeping a W-2 Job, With Kimberly Kesterke

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Let’s face it—most people don’t just suddenly dive into full-time real estate entrepreneurship on day one. Instead, we usually start doing real estate on the side of our full-time W-2 jobs. And while for some the vision is to quit the day job and do real estate investing full time, for many others the goal is to build wealth and cash flow while maintaining a rewarding career. In this episode, Jeff interviews Kimberly Kesterke of The W2 Landlord. Jeff and Kimberly discuss the advantages of investing while having a W-2 job, what it means to achieve one’s financial freedom number, and what it means to be an active investor while holding down another full-time job.

Episode Transcript

So really what I’ve done in my life is I’ve taken a look at what are my bills, what are my obligations, what are my expectations, and the written it all down. So I personally have that number and I look at as long as my rentals or rental income from my tenants is covering that number, then I would be okay. And I’ve actually gotten there. So, what’s funny is you think, Okay, well, you got there; so you just move on. And I think it’s just because I like knowing that I’m there. But I’m still enjoying it continuing to invest. I’m still enjoying learning new strategies. And so again, it just isn’t the time for me, but it would be different for anyone.

Welcome to racking up rentals, a show about how regular people, those of us without huge war chests of capital or insider connections, can build lasting wealth acquiring a portfolio of buy and hold real estate. But we don’t just go mainstream looking at what’s on the market and asking banks for loans, nor are we posting We Buy Houses signs are just looking for quote, motivated sellers to make lowball offers to. You see, we are people-oriented dealmakers, we sit down directly with sellers to work out Win-Win deals without agents or any other obstacles and buy properties nobody else even knows are for sale. I’m Jeff from a thoughtful real estate entrepreneur. If you’re the kind of real estate investor who wants long term wealth, not get rich quick gimmicks or pictures of yourself holding fat checks on social media. This show is for you. Join me and quietly become the wealthiest person on your block. Now let’s go rack up a rental portfolio.

Thank you so much for joining me for another episode of racking up rental Show Notes for this episode are thoughtfulre.com/e94. Please take just a second to do us a massive favor and hit the subscribe button in your podcast app. It really helps other fellow thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs to find us when you subscribe. Thank you so much for doing that. Onward with today’s episode.

In today’s episode, I’ve got a cool interview to share with you. I recently sat down via zoom of course, with Kimberly Kesterke of the W-2 landlord. Kim and I talked about how to approach real estate investing when you have another job, right. And that’s actually the case for a lot of us. You know, a lot of people, especially when we begin. I found myself having this question for Kim how do you know when it’s the right time to switch from your job to real estate investing full time? But through having this conversation with her, I realized that’s the wrong question. the right question is not when is the right time to make this transition? The right question is: do you even want to make this transition and that’s what I think is so powerful about this interview, at least for me was just thinking through the assumption I make that everybody wants to transition full time into real estate and entrepreneurship. And that’s simply not the case. So, I think you’re really going to enjoy this interview. I think for many of you, it’s going to be very, very relatable. And I think you’re going to find Kim to be a very good resource for information education and a community of people who are pursuing real estate investing, while also maintaining a very fulfilling career. Alright, so no more of me yapping. Let’s get straight into the interview with Kim. Okay, Kim, thanks so much for joining me today.

Kim Kesterke:

Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, no, I’ve been really looking forward to this as well. I think that what we’re going to talk about today, the idea of having a job and doing real estate investing is super relatable to a lot of people, right. And there’s sort of that interesting chasm between a lot of people start with the job and then then there’s a real estate thing and like, do you try to cross it? Do you try to do both? I’m really excited to dive into that today- so thank you. So, what made you want to? I’d love to hear a little bit about your real estate story. But also, what made you want to start something to support you know, other people with W-2 jobs in their real estate investing journey?

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, absolutely. So back in 2006, I purchased my first home, and I purchased it in Augusta, Georgia. And throughout the next couple of years, we know that the economy pretty much tanked in 2008. And I became an accidental landlord, I had a full-time job, I became this accidental landlord. I started managing the property. And then on top of that, I actually moved three and a half hours away because of the job transfer. And so, what I ended up finding over the years was I still kept my w two job, I started adding, you know, just different duplexes and triplexes just as I saved that money and could get a conventional loan, and just something hit me as I was driving from Atlanta to Augusta one day, and I just thought, you know, there’s got to be a lot of other people just like me that have a full-time job. That way. Want to speed up the retirement process, maybe they don’t trust the 401k as much or even if they do, they don’t want to wait until they’re 65 to actually do anything with it. And I just really saw real estate as that vehicle that could accelerate it. So, I ended up starting a Facebook group called the W-2 real estate investors, and we’ve grown to almost 2,500 people, and it’s just growing every day. And then on top of that, I started the brand, the W-2 Landlord, which basically just kind of gives that permission for people who have full time jobs to aggressively invest in real estate to really achieve that financial independence or that financial freedom that really we ultimately all want.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, yeah. I love that expression that the accidental landlord, I guess I have heard a few other people say that, but it’s, it seems to me to sort of paraphrase, it’s almost like you were the accidental landlord, and then you became the very intentional landlord. It seems like it’s sort of maybe navigating that transition. Yeah, the people like in your community. Would you say a lot of them are accidental landlords themselves? Are there people who sort of intentionally said, you know, what, I think this real estate thing could help me get ahead.

Kim Kesterke:

You know, I think it’s a combination. So, we’ve got people there that are they have full time jobs, or even full-time businesses, it doesn’t have to be necessarily a W-2, but they’ve got a full-time focus. Either way, it’s a couple different buckets, it’s people who want to get into real estate investing, and they want to network with other people who are still managing their, their full-time work, or it’s people that are looking to retire early, have their W-2s and they’re trying to get to that financial freedom number. And then you’ve got like, you know, the holy grail of the people that have actually done it. They’re like, yep, best thing I ever did. I’m retired. And now I live off of my real estate investments. But the thing is, is our message of the group is not to quit the job. And that’s the difference, because in a lot of real estate, investment communities, and that’s really where I saw where there was gap, is, it’s all about, let’s get there as fast as we can, so we can quit our jobs. But there’s so many benefits of having a W-2, if you can keep it and you want to keep it such as you know, conventional funding, or you’re not totally depending on that slip to go well, or totally depending on that tenant to pay. Of course, we depend on that. But at least we’ve got a little bit of a buffer with our full-time jobs so that we can learn, we can invest and just make smart decisions.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, yeah. So, it’s really interesting, that topic, is a goal to ultimately become a real estate investor full time or not. And it sounds like, generally, like your group is not necessarily about doing that. But do you ever find there are people who decide that they want to do eventually or not so much, yes,

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, we get some of those announcements of; “Hey, I quit my job,” or, “hey, I retired early,” or, you know, so that’s always fun. And that always gets a lot of people who chime in and say, “congratulations,” and “how did you do it?” And what did you do? But, you know, again, there is still that group of people, and I’m one of them, I still have a W-2 job that, like what we do and just aren’t necessarily ready to just make that leap. It’s a space where, for people that’s okay, you know, it doesn’t necessarily have to be one way or another. We could do both.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, yeah. That’s cool. So, you mentioned before the use the expression of financial freedom number, can you tell us a little bit more about that? I mean, I have an idea of what that means, but we tell us what, what do you mean when you say that?

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, so the financial freedom number can be different for everybody. And really where I started learning about it, I’m a very active member of the FIRE community, which is: “financially independent, retire early.” When I say active, I just mean that I listened to a lot of the podcasts and love it. And you know, I even had Diana Marion, she’s the founder of the economy conference for financial independence, had her on our Facebook group to talk a little bit about FIRE. And so, what the financial freedom number is, is it’s really the number that you could walk away comfortably from your job. It’s different for everybody. You know, some people in the FIRE community, I mean, it can be as low as gosh, you know, I’ve heard some people they can do it at $24,000 a year, just because they’re savvy, they house hack, or they suddenly do a lot of different things and you know, other people that might be a different number. So really what I’ve done in my life is I’ve taken a look at what are my bills, what are my obligations, what are my expectations, and have written it all down. So, I personally have that number and I look at as long as my rentals or rental income from my tenants is covering that number then I would be okay. I’ve actually gotten there. So, what’s funny is you think, okay, well, you got there. So, you just move on? And I think it’s just because I like, knowing that I’m there. But I’m still enjoying it, continuing to invest. I’m still enjoying learning new strategies. Again, it just isn’t the time for me, but it would be different for anyone.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, yeah. One question I’ve been asking people sort of in the, in the world of Facebook communities recently is, you know, when you hit your financial goal, whatever that is, will you keep going? And it’s really interesting to hear people answer that. And I would say, just, you know, anecdotally, like the vast majority say, yes, mostly because it’s like, because it’s actually fun, I enjoy this process. It’s a great, it’s a great game. And, you know, we actually sometimes refer to it as like a sport. Once you get really good at the sport, or you start, you really enjoy the sport, and you kind of start going down the deep rabbit hole of like, learning all the ways you can be better at it. It’s, it’s like, why would a person want to stop it? If it’s fun, I realize it’s not necessarily fun for everybody. Sometimes it’s just a means to that end. But so do you find a lot of people are sort of like you, are you? You hit the number, but you keep going? Because you actually enjoy the whole bigger picture of what you’re doing at the W two ends in real estate? Yeah, I

Kim Kesterke:

think they’re definitely, I see that a lot. And I’ve been personally kind of, you know, not struggling with it. But just kind of that question like, Why? Why do you keep going, you know, like, especially after, say, a stressful day, or whatever. And I was really talking about it with a couple with another investor friend, the other day, we were just chatting about it, and then it, it hit me. And I think that this resonates with a lot of people, because to do a W two, and also to do real estate investing, both of those take a lot of work, as you know, I mean, just it’s a lot, it’s a grind, and it’s a lot of hard work. And it’s a lot of follow up and processes and all sorts of things. And I think what it is for me is I finally feel like I got to a point in my life that I’m like, Okay, I’m okay. Like, I’m okay, I’m good. Either way. And it’s a great feeling. So I think part of me still does the W two. Because I’m thinking, well, gosh, you know, now I’m gonna have to 100% devote my life to the real estate, which I love. But what if this or what have that. So I have to like, definitely, you know, calm those fears, you know, before I make the leap, because it is nice to be in a space that my retirements taken care of, that my bills are taken care of, and that I’m just finally good. And not gonna sit in this space for much longer. But it’s just I honestly think that a lot of people can relate to that, because we’re all very hard workers, for whatever reason. And it’s nice to, like, finally feel that sense of security for a moment

Jeff Stephens:

or two. Yeah, yeah, I bet. So somebody who has a W two job and they want to get involved with real estate investing, I can already start here and some sometimes probably in people’s minds, they think, oh, I don’t have this amount of time or I don’t have the energy at the end of the day or I’ve got this I my family responsibilities. But I’m guessing that Coleen is also that a flip side, that it’s somebody who’s sort of steeped in it’s like you are, but I would love to hear from you like, what are some of the things you feel like somebody who has a W two job actually has as an advantage as they launch into real estate investing?

Kim Kesterke:

Absolutely. I mean, so the advantages are, first and foremost, you can get very good conventional loans with a W two job. And the conventional loans, even though it’s you have to put a little bit more down than you do with some of the other, you know, modes of financing, it’s, you get a good interest rate, and especially starting out and I know that you talk a lot about lease options, and subject to and a lot of those other creative strategies. But like for somebody new that a lot of that is more of the advanced techniques, or they don’t, they just have a hard time wrapping their head around it. A conventional loan is honestly a safe, great way to get leverage, protect from inflation, and just get started. And having a W two job really helps you get that. So I would say that’s, you know, the first and foremost advantage, then the second advantage is you have a little bit of room to make a mistake. You know, a lot of people sit back and have the whole analysis, paralysis or paralysis of analysis. And the reason why is because, you know, if they’re just depending on the real estate investing to support their lifestyle, there’s very, very little room for error. But when you have at least some sort of paycheck coming in paying the bills, you can make a little bit of a mistake here and there and it isn’t going to be as detriment.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes good sense a week. You know, in the show, we focus a lot on other types of financing besides that, but one of the things Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, it is. It’s great. I guess one of the things, I feel like I need to do a better job explaining myself, though is like that. Certainly not opposed to using that tool. I think from my perspective, I just want to make sure people are never in a position where they’re always just hoping the bank will say yes to them. Right. Like, yeah, so so then your whole future is kind of reliant upon whether the bank will say yes, and so that’s why I like some of the other things in the toolbox. But yeah, those mean, those loans can be really powerful. And, you know, we know there’s kind of a cap, after which you can’t really get more of those loans. But the caps pretty high. I mean, you could buy several properties like that, right?

Kim Kesterke:

Absolutely. And, and I wouldn’t even advocate getting up to the cap, I just would advocate maybe, if someone’s starting out, and they’re really nervous, and you know, they’ve got a W two job, hey, a conventional loan is, is a really kind of conservative, safe bet. I mean, a lot of the other strategies that you talked about as well are just as conservative and safe. But it’s, it’s still one of those things where, you know, with some people, they just their mind resonates with that. And it’s a good entry level point to then start learning lease options and subject to and creative financing and all the other cool things that we have access to as investors.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, yeah. So the the W two type of real estate investor, like any real estate investor needs access to cash, and stuff like that. And whether it’s for down payments, whether it’s for repairs, or reserves or whatever. What are some of the main strategies that your kind of audience in your group of people employ for that? Is it mostly saving from? Is it saving from the W two job to kind of build up that cash? liquidity again, to then go and do another deal? Are there other things involving refinancing? I mean, is it I have a lot of people in your group doing birth strategy things where they’re extracting equity from properties that they’ve already created value in?

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, absolutely. So I see a lot of people implementing the bur strategy. So going in maybe getting a hard money loan or working with a private investor, and then refinancing out into a conventional. I’ve also seen people just 100% private money, you know, where they’ve, they’ve networked and they’ve found private lenders and private money, and they’re, they’re good to go. And then I also see people doing more of the conventional loan route. And what I like about it is there just just because we’ve got the full time job doesn’t mean that we have to do any which way there’s so many different ways to creatively finance. But what I like about having that little bit of a buffer or that, you know, that w two jobs to like, fall back on, if, you know, maybe we analyze the deal improperly, or or didn’t think of this particular repair when analyzing the deal or things like that, again, you know, we have a little bit more room for error, I would think. Yeah.

Jeff Stephens:

And then when it comes to like finding the opportunities, one of the things we, you know, we talk about on this show a lot is doing our own our own marketing, but I think some people would say, Wow, that sounds like it takes a lot of time. And I would say it does. It certainly takes more time than maybe looking at listed properties. In a sense, I’d say ultimately, pride takes less time to buy more properties, I guess, if we’re not competing with the greater market. But my question for you is, do people who have sort of other full time focuses? Do they have the bandwidth to kind of do creative types of marketing? Or is it Are they better suited for, you know, the sort of more traditional routes of employing the services of a real estate agent working on what’s on the market and things like that?

Kim Kesterke:

Well, I mean, personally, I don’t necessarily recommend buying the off the MLS, especially in our market currently. Now, that could change we never know. But today, I would definitely highly recommend find off market properties. So then the next question is, you know, a lot of people who have w twos they’re busy, and they may not want to send out all those marketing emails or marketing letters and things like that, even though those are effective, it sometimes isn’t so feasible. So well, I definitely recommend and what I personally had success with and have had success with is working with wholesalers. Honestly, I mean, just because we have the you know, the W two or the full time job, we can pay a little bit more for a property, not not over the top, the numbers still have to work but the whole purpose of a wholesaler is to go out and do all of that work for you. And they deserve to be paid accordingly. And you’re still getting a good deal of good property on the back end. So especially if you network with multiple wholesalers, I mean, I’m on probably five or six different wholesaler lists, I’m constantly getting texts, emails, from just different wholesalers with properties. And that’s how I get my properties now and and i don’t Don’t mind paying a little extra and maybe not getting it directly from the seller, you know, paying their you know, whatever the assignment fee is because it actually saves some time in the process. And, again, a lot of my audience aren’t there working all day. So it’s better for them to get an email or a text that they can respond quickly on, instead of having to do all the grunt work.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, yeah, I see. Okay, thank you. And then sort of the last thing that comes to my mind when I think about the dynamics of having another full-time focus is, of course, now you bought these properties, like, Oh, my gosh, what are we gonna do in terms of management? Like, what has been your personal approach? Are you a self-manager? Are you kind of have a property management firm? Or how does that work for you?

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, so for the first 15 years, because I think I’m a little crazy, I self-managed my properties. And I’m telling you, though, it taught me a ton, I never had one eviction ‘knock on wood.’ I know my time is coming at least one time in the real estate world, but never had an eviction, I was able to really put together some awesome processes, where I was able to marketplace and manage all the tenant responsibilities remotely and online. When it came to coordinating contractors; over the years, I had developed some really good relationships with people that I trusted in each individual trade, I think that’s the key, you can’t just depend on one person to do everything. I was able to call and lean on them when I need it. But at a certain point, my portfolio got to the point that it just made way more sense to get a property manager, I’m so glad I did. I actually hired a gal, and we’ve really become good friends. She’s a real estate agent. She’s also an investor herself and she gets it. So it’s really worked very well for me. She manages everything, I just kind of managed the manager, in a sense, you know, following up on certain things, which I still think is important as investors, if you have a property manager, you still are managing that property manager. And through that, I mean, it’s been a really great experience.

Jeff Stephens:

That’s cool. That sounds like a great arrangement, then.

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah. Yes.

Jeff Stephens:

So, I’ve got kind of, maybe you’d call it maybe a little philosophical, or maybe just like a strategic kind of question; one thing I think about a ton myself and then end up talking about on the podcast, and things like that is the difference between being an investor and being an entrepreneur. And so, my very quick synopsis of that is, I think, an investor gathers resources, and then they choose a vehicle into which to place those resources. Whereas I feel like in an entrepreneur goes out and creates an opportunity and then assembles the resources needed to take advantage of that opportunity. So, like an investor then would be they’re very confident in their resources. Whereas then, an entrepreneur is very confident in their resourcefulness. So, an entrepreneur might go out and create a deal and they go, Oh, my gosh, great. This, this deal makes tons of sense, how am I going to pay for it? Right? Is there room in the world of a W-2 real estate investor to do some more of those, like entrepreneurial type of deals where you’re out there, you’re stirring up opportunity? You put together a deal and go, “Wow, great, that deals gonna take about 100 Grand to close. I’ve got about five, huh? How else am I going to tackle this sort of which would be a little bit more of the entrepreneur’s mentality?” Or should W-2 folks really stick to kind of like, I’m looking for investment vehicles, rather than opportunities to create massive new value? Does that make sense?

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, absolutely. And I think it’s a really good, a really good question. And it goes back to kind of the different silos of the members of the group, because you know, everybody’s kind of in a different spot of, or in a different category. So, I would say that the people who are super happy with their job and they are on the upward trajectory, they’ve got a lot in their advancement. They’re not looking to necessarily quit their job, they just want a retirement strategy to get them there faster than I would say, those guys would be put into more of that investor of what ROI Am I getting, I’m going to put I’ve got extra cash, I’m going to put it here and I’m going to get this ROI. And that’s that I’m going to focus on my job. But then there’s people like myself, and then you know, I can think of a handful of active members that they are the ones that are more of what you just said more of the entrepreneur that they are keeping the job for right now. Because its security, its stability, they like having that little bit more of a you know, they’re still learning and want to be able to make mistakes without it being detrimental. I would definitely put those people in that more entrepreneur category, because there’s nothing more fun than seeing a basically seeing a property come over by a wholesaler. You know, it’s going to be good, you know, it’s going to it’s an entity that area and being able to jump on it, and then aligning the resources accordingly. But I think that a part of my audience would have a panic attack on that, and would just say no, just tell me, like, just let me give you the money and then have somebody else do it. And I just want to get X amount of return.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, that’s cool.

So okay, one kind of final question to put a bow on this, I guess is, people with w two jobs, they go to work now, maybe not so much in the last, you know, 12 to 15 months, they’re probably just working from home. But in the days, when they would go to an office, they’re driving down the road, if you could put a billboard like up on the side of the road, that had just sort of this one message that would kind of sum up like what you wish they would think about or take away about the idea of, of real estate, and the role that could play maybe in their in their lives? Like, what would you put on a billboard?

Kim Kesterke:

Oh, good thing, it’s a big billboard is all I have to say. I think it’s, you know, the real estate is your best protector of inflation. It’s the accelerator of wealth. And you can’t just depend on stocks, bonds and mutual funds, you’ve got to be able to diversify. I think they all have their space, and they’re great vehicles, but land, you can touch a house you can touch. And if you structure it appropriately, your inflation rate is going to be a lot less than others who aren’t necessarily turning to real estate as their go to.

Jeff Stephens:

Yeah, no, that’s cool. I feel like the real estate and inflation are not talked about enough in the same sentence. And I think that that’s such an interesting thing. I hear people compare all the time, you know, real estate to stocks or real estate to cryptocurrency or whatever. Yeah. I feel like that point you just made there; I don’t understand why it’s not a more present part of the conversation. And then if you elaborate that further, you could say, well, in times of inflation, it’s good to have a lot of debt, I guess you could argue, right? Because all of a sudden, that debt seems a lot smaller when things in play, I guess that’s a kind of another topic, but

Kim Kesterke:

Well, it’s purchasing power, you know. So, I’ve kind of wrapped, you know, grappled with do I pay down my loans and just own everything free and clear? Or do I take that money and put it into other investments? And again, it’s a personal thing, and I still don’t have the exact answer. But one thing that I have realized is when you look at the price of lumber, you look at the price of steel, those are the commodities that indicate that inflation is coming, gas is going up and not to panic, because I think we’re fine. We still we have a great economy. But those are some signals. And the nice thing is, is that with real estate, we’re going to be taking that cheaper dollars, paying off that loan over time. If we take our more expensive dollars today and pay it off, I just feel like we’re in a much better position to just keep the monthly payments, utilize good debt, which is as long as that asset is generating money. To me, that’s a good debt. And that that can really help you in the long run, because you’re paying it off with cheaper dollars down the road. Yeah, absolutely.

Jeff Stephens:

I couldn’t agree more. That’s awesome. Okay, so I know there’s a lot of people who listen to the show, who are some I should say, who are full time real estate entrepreneurs now, but there are a lot who are employed otherwise, and I have a feeling there’s a lot of people who are going to want to learn more about you and your group and everything you do. So, what’s the best place for people to find out more about all of that?

Kim Kesterke:

Absolutely. So, if they have a Facebook account, they can find the group that’s called the W-2 Real Estate Investors. And that’s on Facebook, in the group. We’d love to have you It’s free to join, we’ve got so many great personalities in there, you know, just chime in, in sharing information. It’s great. If you wanted to reach out directly, you don’t have a Facebook group, then you can go to my website, which is theW2landlord.com. It can take you to the I have a 30-day challenge e-book that I provide. It’ll also link you up to the Facebook group if you want. And then a few other resources as well to reach out.

Jeff Stephens:

Excellent. Okay, well, I hope everybody listening goes and checks those things out. I’m a part of the group on Facebook myself. And it’s nice, yeah. Active, vibrant community of good, good people. So I’ve enjoyed being part of that.

Kim Kesterke:

Awesome, ya know, glad to have you and feel free to post whatever you want. Because I feel like the more that people post their content and thoughts, the better the conversations and just the better the group.

Jeff Stephens:

Fully agree. That’s awesome. Kim, thank you so much for taking some time to be with me today.

Kim Kesterke:

Yeah, thank you, Jeff. This was fun.

Jeff Stephens:

Well, I hope you enjoyed that interview. I really enjoyed conducting it. And I have to admit, maybe I’m a little embarrassed to say I’m just so caught up in my own little world and perspective on things. It really opened my eyes to all the really beneficial things about getting Started and even maybe continuing to do your real estate investing while you have a day job as well. And if that is your path, I hope this episode has proved as helpful to you as was the goal. So that is it for today’s episode of racking up rentals again, show notes can be found at thoughtfulre.com/e94.

Please do us a big favor by hitting the subscribe button your podcast app for just a quick second and rate and review the show on the platform. We’d really, really appreciate that. Hey, did you know also we have a Facebook group for thoughtful real estate entrepreneurs. It’s called Rental Portfolio Wealth Builders and we would love to have you join us over there. Just type in group.thoughtfulre.com into your browser and you’ll be taken straight there. If you liked this episode, please take a screenshot of that post that to Instagram and tag us We are at thoughtful real estate.

 I’ll see in the next episode. Until then, this is Jeff from a thoughtful real estate entrepreneur signing off.

Thanks for listening to Racking Up Rentals where we build long term wealth by being a win-win deal makers. Remember solve the person to unlock the deal and solve the financing to unlock the profits.

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